|
|
Post by ChrisB on Aug 6, 2014 14:11:44 GMT
I think size does matter, but to get the best sound you have to pre-suppose a certain level of quality of design and manufacture. And , therefore, performance. It's no good thinking a big speaker is automatically better simply by virtue of it's size. This is where a lot of people setting out on the upgrade path fall down, I think. Their little heart's desire is to own a floorstander asap because of the perception that all the best systems have them. Often, a far better way of doing things is to stick with a really good stand mounter until the rest of the system is more properly sorted and you can afford to leapfrog over the cheaper floorstanders to the level where they start to get really interesting. There are an awful lot of very humdrum floorstanders out there at the lower end of the market, which are really best avoided! The standard trick is to take a small speaker and make it work in a bigger box. Well, yes it's now a floorstander, but is it a better speaker? Almost certainly not! To make it work you can't just simply make the thing taller, because you lose the inherent rigidity that you get from a small box - you need to make a better quality cabinet.
There's that old chestnut - 'a good big one always beats a good small one' but what people often fail to notice is that little word 'good'. A good big un is much harder to make than a good little un. And that costs money!
|
|
|
|
Post by MartinT on Aug 6, 2014 14:43:02 GMT
Someone, somewhere was going to take the bait  |
|
|
|
Post by MartinT on Aug 6, 2014 14:46:37 GMT
Indeed, Chris, and I would generally avoid slim tower speakers designed for AV. They frequently sound pants. My Gale GS-401 stand-mounters could teach many a floorstander all about scale. As with all things, there are exceptions to the rule.
|
|
|
|
Post by MikeMusic on Aug 6, 2014 15:59:44 GMT
Yes, those Gales are so good they are within spitting distance of Isobariks  |
|
|
|
Post by MartinT on Aug 6, 2014 17:24:43 GMT
Yes, those Gales are so good they are within spitting distance of Isobariks Not bad for £38 as 'breaking for spares'! |
|
|
|
Post by John on Aug 6, 2014 17:45:39 GMT
On a point of pedantry , unless ob's can do the housework or make coffee , then they dont do things boxed speakers cant . they must surely do the same thing only better . However , except for one pair i have seen [jamo's i think, which were very expensive ] they sure is all ugly . Most OB are mostly DIY and certainly not for most people due to their size (build quality is going to be genreally up to the persons woodworking skills in my case pretty non existent). Here is another OB that I think looks great but not cheap www.hawthorneaudio.us/docs/RainierAnnouncement.pdf The AMT 500 drivers are pretty special The cross down lower than the TAD Reference 1. I think around 375 and go up 20000 Video clip is them in action at some pint I get the AMT 700 drivers They go down around 650 flat System is all digital including amps with active crossover which seems to be the way to go when funds allow |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2014 18:05:55 GMT
Most OB are mostly DIY and certainly not for most people due to their size (build quality is going to be genreally up to the persons woodworking skills in my case pretty non existent). Here is another OB that I think looks great but not cheap www.hawthorneaudio.us/docs/RainierAnnouncement.pdf The AMT 500 drivers are pretty special The cross down lower than the TAD Reference 1. I think around 375 and go up 20000 Video clip is them in action at some pint I get the AMT 700 drivers They go down around 650 flat System is all digital including amps with active crossover which seems to be the way to go when funds allow Making them pretty is easy enough. I assume they are going to have to be quite big to get any bass response without too much electrickery. |
|
|
|
Post by John on Aug 6, 2014 18:18:17 GMT
Depends what you call big I seen some old school baffles that take this route.
Mine do pretty good bass What you need is high QTs I am also using active DSP to help
The baffles in the video go down to 20 which is pretty good in any terms I reckon mine somewhere around 30 but not had it measured. I have it cutting off at 26 but not sure it does that in the room. Does very convincing bass that is clean and fast
|
|
|
|
Post by gazjam on Aug 7, 2014 2:33:43 GMT
Another fan of big floorstanders here. Had a set of Rega RS3's previously. Very dynamic, and fast...good bass weight and scale considering the drive unit size, but I felt I was missing some heft to drive the music along.  Bass weight and depth, scale, and a wide solid soundstage all makes for a more involving listen to me. great improvident in all the above with my new Edingdales. No substitute for cubic inches!  |
|
|
|
Post by danielquinn on Aug 7, 2014 5:53:33 GMT
Yes but all you have done is multiply drivers not actually increased cone size. To some that would heresay as the op title suggests there is no substitute for inches.
|
|
|
|
Post by MartinT on Aug 7, 2014 6:12:10 GMT
It's surface area that moves air, DQ. It doesn't matter whether it's a single driver or multiples. Some would say it's easier to make light and fast moving cones in smaller sizes, although JBL seem to manage creating superb large drivers. For example, a single 15" driver has a surface area of 177sq", while the 2 x 11" drivers in my speakers have a surface area of 190sq". Gaz looks to have more than quadrupled his air moving ability. That would improve his sense of scale quite dramatically. There's more than one way to skin a cat  |
|
|
|
Post by danielquinn on Aug 7, 2014 7:02:53 GMT
Martin you offer a valid opinion what you say is by no means accepted orthodoxy. There is of course a vociferous debate the small multiple deos not equal one large.
I have owned 753's and some 5 foot multiple drive diy speakers.
|
|
|
|
Post by gazjam on Aug 7, 2014 7:10:34 GMT
Yes but all you have done is multiply drivers not actually increased cone size. To some that would heresay as the op title suggests there is no substitute for inches. The speakers Dan are actually a two-way design 4 drivers doing the work of one BIG one, shifts the air of a BIG driver, but quarters the distortion and has greater efficiency. Designed initially for single ended valve amps I think, 300B's and the like? 94db I think, on the end of a 50 watter push-pull amp they do the scale thing "kinda" well. The cool thing is, when your trouser legs are flapping (...and your approaching the "brown note"), the cones are hardly moving. |
|
|
|
Post by danielquinn on Aug 7, 2014 7:14:43 GMT
I like the sound of that. They are the same as my fondly remembered diy speakers. Are they wired in series or parallel?
|
|
|
|
Post by MartinT on Aug 7, 2014 7:15:38 GMT
There is of course a vociferous debate the small multiple deos not equal one large. There are electrical differences in driving multiple drivers, but assuming the overall impedance is within the range of capability of the amp, I am unaware of such a debate, as far as bass drivers go? |
|
|
|
Post by danielquinn on Aug 7, 2014 7:17:20 GMT
Clearly Martin you don't read enough |
|
|
|
Post by MartinT on Aug 7, 2014 7:30:14 GMT
I'm not taking the bait, DQ! Air is moved by diaphragm surface area and displacement. As far as surface area is concerned, why does it matter whether it's a single driver or multiples? Help me understand.
|
|
|
|
Post by danielquinn on Aug 7, 2014 7:42:41 GMT
I am explaining a situation that exists. I am not illuminating my opinion. I could equally say if there is no difference why bother with 8 inch or more drivers. The simple fact is not everyone agrees with you there are plenty of people who do not like small multiple drivers. They consider that they poorly integrate and do not offer the immediacy or dynamics of a single large driver.
As always it's for the individual to decide.
|
|
|
|
Post by MartinT on Aug 7, 2014 8:19:49 GMT
They consider that they poorly integrate and do not offer the immediacy or dynamics of a single large driver. Poor integration doesn't really apply to bass drivers and I was careful to talk only about the bass end of the spectrum. As for immediacy and dynamics, it's easier to make small very lightweight cones than it is to make one large one. I would therefore expect multiple small drivers to be potentially faster (but electrically more difficult to drive). There are always exceptions, which is why I mentioned JBL. |
|
|
|
Post by Dave on Aug 7, 2014 8:24:31 GMT
Hmmm interesting. I should pick up another three pairs of AV21's and glue them all together, top to bottom. Watch out Edingdales you have potential competition... |
|
