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Post by John on Aug 29, 2024 10:24:57 GMT
Some of the systems I heard that have a more complex setup have been pretty special. This days I prefer a simple setup, but some of the more complex systems in terms of the lengths they have gone to deal both with ethernet noise issues and other DC noise issues have left my system for dead. At the moment we are still learning about what works best and think it's healthy to stay open to other approaches
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Tobias
Rank: Quartet
Posts: 262
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Post by Tobias on Aug 29, 2024 10:39:54 GMT
For sure, i agree! But i think many disregard this approach, also from a high-end perspective, just because "it can´t be that simple...". I can understand that there is a reluctance to go back and try this full-on, if you already have invested a lot in another more complicated method.
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Post by stellabagpuss on Aug 29, 2024 11:09:07 GMT
The only way .. Is to try.
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Morph
Rank: Duo
Posts: 62
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Post by Morph on Aug 29, 2024 15:27:49 GMT
Well, on reflection linking the two v1 choke cables wasn't an improvement after all. I had a lengthy listening session into the small hours last night and detected a rise in sibilance and muddier bass. So I'm back to one v1. The v3 looks like an interesting proposition though.
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Tobias
Rank: Quartet
Posts: 262
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Post by Tobias on Sept 7, 2024 16:05:56 GMT
I see a lot of skepticism about the throttle choke concept, as a really good solution, and i want to help try to explain why i believe this is a genius approach.
After having had some time to reflect on this concept, here is a better attempt to fully explain this concept:
If you want to fight all ethernet sourced noise you need to understand what noise profile you have to fight. The problem is often that we all have different levels of noise since we all have different infrastructure at home. Finding a baseline for the noise is therefore very important if you want to have a structured way to fight that exact noise profile that you have.
Here is where the WiFi extender comes into play (that in my book is essential and part of the throttle choke concept). The WiFi extender separates your noisy ethernet from your HiFi equipment. The idea is to use a WiFi extender (in client mode, meaning only as a receiver) that has a low noise output potential, when pared with very clean power. That way everyone that starts with the same WiFi extender and the same power supply has very similar noise output profile.
Now we need to clean that WiFi extender output, since it is of course not good enough for High End audio. The idea is to apply passive filtering (that adds no new noise) using the perfect recipe of ferrit cores and clamps that will target the exact noise profile that we had. Note that you need to use a non shielded ethernet cable, since the ferrit won´t do much otherwise, and the ferrits need to cover the full length, more or less. After a lot of trial and error, and working with the ferrit manufacturers, a recipe has been created that in measurements and listening test has proven very effective in removing the WiFi extender noise. The solution has been confirmed by many by now and so far i haven´t heard anyone that has been disappointed. Rather the opposite, even for people who has rather extreme setups, from what i understand.
The concept can probably be improved even further but the nice thing is that they work from a baseline, i think, which can be improved upon. This is often the problem in audio, which causes confusion, that we all have different noise input to begin with.
If someone believe i got something wrong, please help correct me! It is important that we get this right.
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Post by Clive on Sept 7, 2024 16:52:22 GMT
As you know I’m using the original throttle cable (single ferrite) and WiFi Extender. I’m happy with this, I don’t know what improvements the latest throttle cable brings.
I think the only potential downside of the throttle cable is whether the passive filtering changes the waveform slightly, ie does it round the corners a little. I’ve no idea….but I think that’s a possible concern for some. Certainly for me currently I’m very pleased with the result.
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Tobias
Rank: Quartet
Posts: 262
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Post by Tobias on Sept 7, 2024 17:02:16 GMT
As you know I’m using the original throttle cable (single ferrite) and WiFi Extender. I’m happy with this, I don’t know what improvements the latest throttle cable brings. I think the only potential downside of the throttle cable is whether the passive filtering changes the waveform slightly, ie does it round the corners a little. I’ve no idea….but I think that’s a possible concern for some. Certainly for me currently I’m very pleased with the result. I have to say that the V3 was a very big improvement and totally worth the extra job and extra spending. Regarding the wave form, i think that is an old myth. I believe it was previous ideas that some thought had importance, since we all struggled to understand these things. The data is buffered in the DAC and recreated so what the wave form looks like prior to the DAC is not relevant, in my mind.
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Post by Clive on Sept 7, 2024 17:09:14 GMT
When will the V3 spec be made public?
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Tobias
Rank: Quartet
Posts: 262
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Post by Tobias on Sept 7, 2024 17:20:46 GMT
It can be found on the same site but some digging in needed currently. I really want to give them the credit so i don´t want to share it my self.
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Post by MartinT on Sept 7, 2024 17:21:47 GMT
Damien linked to it in the 3rd post.
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Post by Clive on Sept 7, 2024 18:12:01 GMT
It can be found on the same site but some digging in needed currently. I really want to give them the credit so i don´t want to share it my self. I’ve found photos of the Mamba / V3 cable on the forum. Presumably Eric will write it up as he did for the original. ethernet-sound.com/forums/topic/drosselkabel/page/48/post 3725 is where the spec is described, page 44
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Tobias
Rank: Quartet
Posts: 262
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Post by Tobias on Sept 7, 2024 18:32:36 GMT
I have a feeling that it is worth using the links, to the trusted manufacturer sites, which might seem a bit more expensive. From what i understand there is difference between ferrits and ferrits. My V1 was just a random amazon buy, since i didn´t understand (and i was sceptic) which could explain why my version 3 is massively better than the V1. At least i now think it mattered as well.
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Post by Clive on Sept 8, 2024 18:46:47 GMT
I have a feeling that it is worth using the links, to the trusted manufacturer sites, which might seem a bit more expensive. From what i understand there is difference between ferrits and ferrits. My V1 was just a random amazon buy, since i didn´t understand (and i was sceptic) which could explain why my version 3 is massively better than the V1. At least i now think it mattered as well. Hi Tobias, I wanted to check…presumably for the V3 cable it’s the DELOCK end of the cable that plugs into the streamer?
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Tobias
Rank: Quartet
Posts: 262
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Post by Tobias on Sept 8, 2024 19:39:14 GMT
I have the DELOCK on the WiFi extender side and i think it should be that way.
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Post by Clive on Sept 8, 2024 20:33:22 GMT
I have the DELOCK on the WiFi extender side and i think it should be that way. I was wondering, hence my question. The extremely short Ethernet cable into the the DELOCK if necessarily that short causes me an issue as I can’t have the WiFi Extender closer than 3m from my streamer/DAC. Hmm I need to have a think about how to configure the components.
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Tobias
Rank: Quartet
Posts: 262
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Post by Tobias on Sept 8, 2024 20:41:54 GMT
Hmm, i guess a normal shielded cable from the WiFi Extender to the DELOCK should be able to be 3 meters long without any impact? I have been thinking about that 15cm first unshielded cable myself, and the fact that it is unprotected like that.
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Post by Clive on Sept 8, 2024 20:46:30 GMT
Hmm, i guess a normal shielded cable from the WiFi Extender to the DELOCK should be able to be 3 meters long without any impact? I have been thinking about that short first unshielded cable myself, and the fact that it is unprotected like that. My current V1 has 3m shielded cable as you describe…I’ll have to try it…with the V3 though it’ll have to wait at least a couple of weeks.
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