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Post by John on Jul 24, 2024 20:46:10 GMT
Yes this is Eric specs but as I said it might not be the throttle cable that is the issue in my system
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Post by Tobias on Jul 24, 2024 21:32:59 GMT
John, it would be really interesting to fully understand how it can get worse (for that combination) by adding passive filtering, as the throttle solution.
I am not implying that your claims are wrong! I am just very interesting to understand how the sibilance could get increased by adding passive filtering since that is (in my mind) implying that your DAC is hit with more noise then without the throttle cable. (in that particular streamer/DAC)
Just me be eager to to understand more.
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Post by John on Jul 25, 2024 5:12:55 GMT
I have no way to really test, what is going on. I actually suspect it is crosstalk from the grounding wires. I have no way to run the throttle cable without getting close to the grounding cables.
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Post by John on Jul 27, 2024 10:46:04 GMT
I just wanted to update.
This morning I have re-routed my ethernet cable and can confirm it was crosstalk issues and not the throttle cable
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Post by Clive on Jul 27, 2024 16:29:05 GMT
I have an update too. It’s early days still…I’ve just installed the TP Link travel router recommended by Eric, I have the exact same V3 model which I’m powering from a Temple SuperCap PS…I tried a powebank and quickly removed it after hearing the Temple PS. The wireless router feeds an Ethernet choke cable which runs into my streamer/DAC. The network is therefore running without the FMCs and the copper Amphenol DAC cable. I still need to try the various versions of the choke cable to see if they differ in their sound.
The resulting sound with the TP Link air gap plus choke cable vs fully wired connection with FMCs & copper DAC cable plus choke cable ….they sound the same. I need to try a few configurations but it’s good to have two very similar sounding methods available
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Post by John on Jul 27, 2024 16:33:27 GMT
Air gapping should add further isolation
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Post by Clive on Jul 27, 2024 16:38:42 GMT
Air gapping should add further isolation I’m sure it does though the wired connection with DAC cable and choke cable sounds much the same so may have similar noise levels. The TP Link router is a simpler configuration as there’s only one PS needed so that is in it’s favour. |
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Post by MartinT on Jul 27, 2024 17:46:22 GMT
I still have three air gaps:
1) 4G+
2) moat in EtherREGEN
3) moat in U18
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Post by Clive on Jul 27, 2024 19:30:28 GMT
It makes sense to have air gaps after any component that could add noise. How do the moats work, are they actual air gaps?
Do the FMCs qualify as moats?
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Post by MartinT on Jul 27, 2024 20:46:16 GMT
How do the moats work, are they actual air gaps? Do the FMCs qualify as moats? The moats are areas of the circuit board delineated by a "no-go" zone and use opto-isolator ICs spanning the gap between the 'dirty' and 'clean' sides. Yes, FMCs using optical fibre qualify as isolation. Here is the PCB for the EtherREGEN with the moat clearly shown as a thick green line.  |
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Post by Clive on Jul 31, 2024 19:45:54 GMT
I’ve installed the TP-Link WiFi extender as described in Eric’s blog the year prior to his Throttle Cable posting. The result is similar to what the FMCs with skewclear deliver. Possibly the WiFi Extender is slightly ahead but the two methods are in the same ballpark. Certainly the extender is a simpler solution - although I’m having to cope with some dropouts so I need to find an optimal position for the extender.
I was mulling over Tony’s comment about using a choke can work but it can instead degrade the signal of a low noise network - suck it and see. Martin too wasn’t sure whether in his noise optimised network whether the Throttle Cable will help.
I’ve therefore tried the WiFi extender with and without the Thottle Cable - bear in mind my broadband is FTTC so I have copper coming to the house (they say copper but having tried to cut similar cables, I reckon it’s steel). Using just the WiFi extender with CAT 8 Ugreen vs WiFi extender plus Thottle Cable I find the Throttle Cable no longer makes a huge difference. I think there’s a difference but it’s going to take time to assess exactly what and whether it’s better or worse. For sure it’s close.
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Post by Tobias on Jul 31, 2024 19:56:29 GMT
Clive, is this with the ootb power supply for the WiFi extender?
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Post by Clive on Jul 31, 2024 20:06:16 GMT
Clive, is this with the ootb power supply for the WiFi extender? It’s with a Temple Audio Supercap powersupply. This sounds significantly better than a powerbank…as for the provided PS, don’t go there! |
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Post by Clive on Aug 1, 2024 19:24:50 GMT
I’ve had more time now with the TP Link WiFi extender and Throttle Cable. I’m just about coming to the conclusion I prefer the sound with the WiFi extender but without the Throttle Cable. With the Throttle Cable the sound is a little smoother but some life (dynamics) is removed…not a lot but I think I prefer the sound without it.
My hypothesis is that we need enough noise rejection but no unnecessary filtering. If a common mode filter is needed following the WiFi extender then it should be used but if it’s not needed then some negative effects may outweigh any potential advantages.
I fixed my dropouts by repositioning the TP Link.
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Post by MartinT on Aug 3, 2024 19:43:32 GMT
The ferrite core arrived in four pieces, not quite what I had wanted. Very poor packing. It'll take a while to get another one.
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Morph
Rank: Duo
Posts: 62
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Post by Morph on Aug 4, 2024 11:12:53 GMT
MartinT Mouser had mine to me in three days. Maybe worth looking at unless you've already ordered the replacement. Morph
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Post by MartinT on Aug 4, 2024 11:16:54 GMT
I've ordered a different one from Amazon.
Should get it by Tuesday.
Have to reiterate that my system is sounding fantastic, so it's going to get a stiff test. I already have a longer uGreen ethernet cable to use with it.
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Post by Tobias on Aug 4, 2024 11:19:53 GMT
I’ve had more time now with the TP Link WiFi extender and Throttle Cable. I’m just about coming to the conclusion I prefer the sound with the WiFi extender but without the Throttle Cable. With the Throttle Cable the sound is a little smoother but some life (dynamics) is removed…not a lot but I think I prefer the sound without it. My hypothesis is that we need enough noise rejection but no unnecessary filtering. If a common mode filter is needed following the WiFi extender then it should be used but if it’s not needed then some negative effects may outweigh any potential advantages. I fixed my dropouts by repositioning the TP Link. Clive, now we probably don´t have the exact same throttle configuration but my conclusion was initially similar. But later i realized that the sibilance was so effectively removed that the sound now appeared to be less dynamic. I then started to realize that I could now crank the volume much more, without the sound appearing to sound "loud" (shouty) and by doing that the dynamics actually improved, at the end of the day. I have seen some people that keep the volume fixed, when comparing these things, which actually can be a mistake (in my opinion). I just wanted to share my own experience but i am not claiming that i am necessary correct or that it will be the same for you! |
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bencat
Rank: Quartet
Posts: 303
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Post by bencat on Aug 4, 2024 11:58:11 GMT
Martin which one on Amazon did you order ?
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Post by Clive on Aug 4, 2024 13:16:06 GMT
I’ve had more time now with the TP Link WiFi extender and Throttle Cable. I’m just about coming to the conclusion I prefer the sound with the WiFi extender but without the Throttle Cable. With the Throttle Cable the sound is a little smoother but some life (dynamics) is removed…not a lot but I think I prefer the sound without it. My hypothesis is that we need enough noise rejection but no unnecessary filtering. If a common mode filter is needed following the WiFi extender then it should be used but if it’s not needed then some negative effects may outweigh any potential advantages. I fixed my dropouts by repositioning the TP Link. Clive, now we probably don´t have the exact same throttle configuration but my conclusion was initially similar. But later i realized that the sibilance was so effectively removed that the sound now appeared to be less dynamic. I then started to realize that I could now crank the volume much more, without the sound appearing to sound "loud" (shouty) and by doing that the dynamics actually improved, at the end of the day. I have seen some people that keep the volume fixed, when comparing these things, which actually can be a mistake (in my opinion). I just wanted to share my own experience but i am not claiming that i am necessary correct or that it will be the same for you! Hi Tobias, last night I was thinking about the exact situation you describe. Today I’m going to try a more extended listening session this time with the Throttle Cable. Last night without the cable I ended my session strangely a little meh. As an a/b comparison the Throttle Cable lost out at little but on extended listening it could be a different result. |
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