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Post by Tobias on May 5, 2023 19:04:08 GMT
As new to the TAS forum i wanted to share my newbie journey in this lovely hobby. I have always been very interested in the gears, ever since my dad bought some nice gear in our house in my teens. We used to listen together on very high volume, in the early 90´s. He was very open minded and also listen to my hero´s like Pearl Jam, Alice in Chains, PJ Harvey, Metallica... The system we had was very Rock & Roll, with a pair of wide classic floor standers with 12inch bass, I would now imagine. I think they where Technics. My dad was into Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Beatles, Rod Stewart, Bruce...(basically rock) I remember, like it was yesterday, when me and my brother bought our first hifi system. We went together to the store, with our dad. My brother selected the biggest/meanest system he could find. I think it was Kenwood with "everything" on it that made it look like it could rock the house apart... For some reason i selected a much less "in your face" looking rig, from Yamaha. I think i know that it was "better" from a sonic perspective, even if it was not looking the part. Fast forward to when I turned 20ish and got my own apartment. I then saved up and bought Primare amplifier, Marantz CD-63 MkII KI Signature (which then got considered a classic, i believe) and B&W CDM1 speakers. At that time i know nothing about synergy or room treatment and it actually sounded really boring... You needed to crank the volume to make it sing, which was not ideal in the apartment I had. 25 years later, at the beginning of the pandemic, I finely got into this hobby again. It started with IEM´s... I bought a pair of Tin Hifi T4 and got amazed how good it sounded for £100. Then I bought a Lotoo Paw S1 dongle and of course it reached new heights... It made me realized that I need to try Hifi gears again but with a focus on streaming only. My CD collection is in my summer house. After a lot of Youtube watching and internet reading I felt that I wanted to go all in on a local manufacturer with synergy and bought a complete setup from the XTZ dealer in Sweden, as seen in my signature. I was immediately blown away by the performance for the modest money. It would wipe the floor with my old, much more expensive gears. The details it brought out and soundstage was just amazing! Edit: I bought my subwoofer separately which was an amazing upgrade. Not so much for the added bass (it isn´t noticed much) but rather the added ambience from the recording room/scene that it brought to the recordings. After a while I skipped Spotify and went to Qobuz instead. The sound felt a bit harsh, in the treble, so i replaced my silver cables (old fairly expensive ones that I saved) with Rega OCC copper speaker and RCA cables (they where initially meant for a full Rega system that I also have...). The sound got much less harsh in the treble. (first learning, cables do matter!) I then wanted to try power related things. I realized that i wanted to start in the beginning of the chain so I bought a power strip from Taga and their most expensive power cable, which is still not expensive. When i got home I realized that the power strip had a sheap power cable so I used the power cable there instead. Again, it did make a big difference and the sound got much meatier and punchy. (second learning, power matters) Then I realized that switches actually can make a difference when I understood it was not about the data but rather about isolating unwanted noise that interferes with the dac/streamer. I was totally amazed about the difference after having installed a £30 switch!!! I had to buy the suggested power supply for it and of course the upgrade was just as big again... I was now totally hooked! (third learning, the digital part also matters and people on internet are wankers (sorry for for the wording...)) Today I bought a used WireWord Electra 5 Reference OCC copper power cord for my amplifier. As always, when you buy used audiophile gear, I got invited to listen to his setup and chat about gears. (fourth learning, audiophiles are generally really nice people that loves to chat about these things) Having learnt about external clocks here I now have my sights on a Gustard R26 and the LB clock. My wife is obsessed with books which comes in handy from a acoustic treatment perspective, i have realized. More to come, including some pictures hopefully. I also want to thank MartinT who invited me here to this very nice forum after having met on another forum. |
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Post by Tobias on May 5, 2023 19:50:06 GMT
My current improvement thoughts on my setup is that I think I can make massive improvement on the timbre side of things.
It sound amazing, to my ears, already today when I play electronic based music, which i very much like.
But I have realized that instruments does not always sound as they do in reality. (they probably will never do...)
I can of course improve A LOT in all areas but the timbre is something I want to focus on now.
In my mind an R2R dac, like the Gustard R26, could be a great step in the right direction?
An cheaper alternative is the SMSL D400EX that seems to get great reviews now.
Then, as the next step, I will upgrade my speakers considerably.
I´m thinking that I will bring home several speakers, at the same time, and try them out in my home. If i have to buy 3 pairs of speakers at the same time, as a trial, I might do that.
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Post by MartinT on May 5, 2023 20:00:29 GMT
Thanks for the great hi-fi journey all compressed into one post, Tobias. How did you do that?  "Marantz CD-63 MkII KI Signature", well my start in CDs was close with a Philips CD-104B which was quite decent. You comment about moving to Qobuz and it initially sounding harsh is a journey made by quite a few of us. That's the consequence of bringing resolution to a system not yet ready for it. Been there, done that! I'll comment some more later. |
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Post by Tobias on May 5, 2023 22:16:57 GMT
Thanks for the great hi-fi journey all compressed into one post, Tobias. How did you do that? "Marantz CD-63 MkII KI Signature", well my start in CDs was close with a Philips CD-104B which was quite decent. You comment about moving to Qobuz and it initially sounding harsh is a journey made by quite a few of us. That's the consequence of bringing resolution to a system not yet ready for it. Been there, done that! I'll comment some more later. Please do, I am all ears! I´m going to spend a lot more money, now that I got the taste for listening to music this way. I realize that my gear is on a low level currently, audiophile wise, and that there are massive improvements to be made in all areas. I enjoy listening to a lot of badly recorded music also, like punk and alternative rock, so I am not interested in extracting too much information from the recording. The balance act is that I also love listening to "audiophile" recordings also...  (I guess that will be even more interesting as my system resolution evolves...) Acoustic room treatment is also very much prioritized, even though it is our living room, which I believe is rather good acoustically already. Here I want to find ways that are not obviously audiophile solutions but rather things that my interior interested wife can also live with... One limitation that I have is that my speakers currently can´t be more than 30-40cm from the back wall... I know that most speakers likes some breathing room but I have also read about "high end" speakers that seem to do well ~20cm from the back wall. |
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Post by John on May 6, 2023 4:43:58 GMT
I think most of us have been on similar journeys with our systems.
The R26 with the Leo Bodnar clock will be a huge upgrade. All of us who have gone down this route are happy with the performance.
The R26 will give you timbre if your speakers are capable of producing timbre. System synergy is important
Do re-read Martin Thread on getting the best out of your digital system. For me reducing noise is the key for getting the best you can. I used to get frustrated with hearing the effects of internal noise and it took me a long time to get to where I am now.
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Post by MikeMusic on May 6, 2023 8:56:19 GMT
Starting at what I consider the beginning
Mains power
Dedicated circuit for the system if you can do that, with an electrician
A bank of sockets on the wall for all the kit. Get rid of 4, 6 or 8 way adaptors
Mains cables from wall to kit. Spend as much as you think sensible - and likely find yourself on the upgrade trail there
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Post by Tobias on May 6, 2023 9:07:32 GMT
Starting at what I consider the beginning Mains power Dedicated circuit for the system if you can do that, with an electrician A bank of sockets on the wall for all the kit. Get rid of 4, 6 or 8 way adaptors Mains cables from wall to kit. Spend as much as you think sensible - and likely find yourself on the upgrade trail there Thanks! I have read a bit about that and sort of considered it, even if it is very early in my journey still... I am doing things a bit backwards, compared to most people and what is usually suggested, since my gear is very inexpensive still. But something tells me that if I can get the non HiFi specific basics reasonable good, already from the beginning, then the journey to find my "end game" system might be shorter? At least this is what I try to convince myself... |
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Post by MikeMusic on May 6, 2023 9:23:58 GMT
All kit benefits from a good mains supply and the benefit stays while you upgrade
Classic for me was a nasty, cheap radio cassette player at work.
Always had crackle on the radio
Had a Russ Andrews cable passing through so tried it out
Crackle gone, sound quality improved
Assume you only have unswitched sockets in Sweden so our easy upgrade from switched to unswitched isn't relevant to you.
Mains related
Put ferrite chokes on all your noisy electrical appliances, not your system
Very cheap and wonderfully effective
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Post by Tobias on May 6, 2023 10:06:21 GMT
All kit benefits from a good mains supply and the benefit stays while you upgrade Classic for me was a nasty, cheap radio cassette player at work. Always had crackle on the radio Had a Russ Andrews cable passing through so tried it out Crackle gone, sound quality improved Assume you only have unswitched sockets in Sweden so our easy upgrade from switched to unswitched isn't relevant to you. Mains related Put ferrite chokes on all your noisy electrical appliances, not your system Very cheap and wonderfully effective Hehe, now we are talking! That is something I never thought of... I can actually very much hear my fridge and freezer from my listening position... I will dive into that right away. Regarding the unswitched sockets, we have the two pin sockets that can plug in in two ways. I have carefully made sure they are connected the right way, polarity wise, just for the sake of it. If it actually matters, I am not sure? On my WXC-50 with the small 2pin connector in it, it is claimed by some users that it sounds better if you get the polarity right, on the WXC-50 side, at least. |
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Post by MikeMusic on May 6, 2023 13:05:22 GMT
Swedish mains polarity is an interesting feature for you to discover
I have heard Figure 8 connections have a best way.
Some say Yea some say Nay
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Post by Tobias on May 6, 2023 13:41:57 GMT
I realized something today after having installed my new amplifier power cord. (see my signature for more information and context) Again, it responded massively, as my system always seem to do, regardless of what I update or tinker with... (but I go from zero, meaning that I upgrade from standard/cheap cables and IKEA power strips...) While walking my dog I started to think about the fact that people tell me that "you might not notice anything" when I buy switches, analogue/digital cables or power strips... But every time I do it I notice a massive improvement, way bigger than expected! Then I started to think about my gear (mostly my amp, speaker and sub) and why I bought them in the first place. My speakers where tested by Andrew Robinson 2-3 years ago. At the same time he also had the Buchard S400 mk1 speakers and he was able to compare them, together with my amplifier that he also tested. The last sentence in the review was something like: "I am not sure i dare to say this, but i actually think i prefer the XTZ speakers..." I bought my speakers for £400, as a demo pair!!! The Buchard´s is also from a direct sales brand, known for being great for the price, but they are close to 4 times the cost...(at least here) The criticism about the speakers, when reading reviews, seem to be that they can be a bit harsh in the treble which I also can attest to. But after having gone all in on quality OCC copper, in all cables, and cleaned up power and ethernet noise, that notion is now gone. My cables are now getting close to the same cost as my components which isn´t exactly what is normally recommended... The same goes for my Class D IcePower amplifier, which was tested by more people and got a lot more attention. The Youtube channel Tomas & Stereo had several videos about it where his audiophile friends where almost in shock how transparent it was and how well it compared to their expensive amplifiers. (of-course it is a bit dry and maybe not as analogue sounding, as tend to be the case with class D) Subwoofers is what XTZ is mostly known for and they are also crazy cheap for what they offer. (The man behind XTZ died 2 years ago, which is a shame) This now made me realize that I might actually be much closer to MY "end-game" system, then what I thought. Having said that, my rig isn´t exactly sexy so I will probably upgrade anyway...  Today when I listened with the new power cord with, what has become my personal reference recording, Jaquline Du Pré - Cello Concerto. I realized how amazing it sounded and how it got to me, on a deeper level. I have visited two HiFi "shows" this year and I can comfortable say that my room feels better than many of those, that I heard. Not sure if I happen to have near to perfect room acoustics(?) but as an example my soundstage depth is really deep, despite having a covered TV in between, and speakers only being 30cm out from the wall. They also do an remarkable job at disappearing when the recordings are good. Of course, I don´t have anything like that holographic soundstage, that I have experienced. I am also by no means saying that I am anywhere close to what many of you probably have at home! This is just my thoughts and reflections about my system today, already before I have invested in a separate dac. I thought this might be valuable information for someone since I am taking a bit different route than most, from what I understand. |
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Post by MartinT on May 6, 2023 14:19:37 GMT
On the subject of mains power polarity, it is worth checking how your country handles Earth (ground) bonding. Here in the UK, most modern homes have Neutral Ground Bonding. We have only two cables entering the house: Live and Neutral. The Neutral is bonded to ground at lengths along its journey to the premises. The house then has a local ground, often bonded to an incoming pipe with a tag to discourage tampering.
This means your power is directional as one pin is Live while the other hovers close to 0V depending on other appliances and their leakage currents. It's the Live that should be switched and fused.
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Post by Tobias on May 6, 2023 14:21:36 GMT
On the subject of mains power polarity, it is worth checking how your country handles Earth (ground) bonding. Here in the UK, most modern homes have Neutral Ground Bonding. We have only two cables entering the house: Live and Neutral. The Neutral is bonded to ground at lengths along its journey to the premises. The house then has a local ground, often bonded to an incoming pipe with a tag to discourage tampering. This means your power is directional as one pin is Live while the other hovers close to 0V depending on other appliances and their leakage currents. It's the Live that should be switched and fused. Phew, even more things to learn. Thanks! |
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Post by MartinT on May 6, 2023 19:28:00 GMT
A few things occur.
Firstly the importance of power. Start off with decent power connections, no distribution strips, and try a contact cleaner on every connector - mains, DC, signal, speaker and not forgetting the fuses (with the power off). If you're on a budget, Supra LoRad 1.5 is very decent and you can make up your own cables with suitable plugs.
Next, supports. Try to decouple every component using anything from half squash balls to Black Ravioli. Spikes are the work of the devil, avoid them.
Finally, for now, consider a grounding box. You can buy small inexpensive ones on AliExpress. Try one on your streamer or DAC.
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Post by Tobias on May 7, 2023 7:16:57 GMT
A few things occur. Firstly the importance of power. Start off with decent power connections, no distribution strips, and try a contact cleaner on every connector - mains, DC, signal, speaker and not forgetting the fuses (with the power off). If you're on a budget, Supra LoRad 1.5 is very decent and you can make up your own cables with suitable plugs. Next, supports. Try to decouple every component using anything from half squash balls to Black Ravioli. Spikes are the work of the devil, avoid them. Finally, for now, consider a grounding box. You can buy small inexpensive ones on AliExpress. Try one on your streamer or DAC. Thank you for sharing! I will tinker/try all of this. I find it a nice feeling to know that I have thought of "everything" (regardless of what actual impact it might have). |
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Post by John on May 7, 2023 9:17:00 GMT
If you get a grounding box from ali express get the long aucharm and paint it with RFI paint it was a nice upgrade for both Stellabagpus and myself
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Post by stellabagpuss on May 7, 2023 10:09:12 GMT
I can 2nd that Tobias. My ground box didn't do alot in standard format, but once painted with Rustins G Shield paint,the improvement is vast, to the point, you have to be deaf not to hear the difference.
l simply connect mine to the earth pin of the mains block.
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Post by Tobias on May 7, 2023 10:20:19 GMT
Last evening and this morning I have re-listened to many of my favorite live Youtube performances, that I have watched many many times. My new (used) power cable brought out so much of the ambient "bad" live sounds/noises from these Youtube performances that just wasn´t there before. Now I suddenly hear those, sort of unwanted (if you understand what I mean), reverb/microphonic/audio equipment sounds that is part of the live performance, that makes it so much more alive! My wife, who is not very interested (she claims...even if she gets frustrated if she can´t find the remote to turn on the stereo... ) sat glued and mesmerized with the performances, and couldn´t stop watching. For some reason, I wasn´t expecting the power cable to add details (looking more into the recordings) but that was the very obvious thing that happened. (for some reason I expected it to maybe be more punchy in the base...) To give three examples of my personal favorite live performances, that I watched over and over again. The funny thing is that I don´t care much about any of these artists, when listening to music only... There is just something about visual performances, sometimes, that add some magic to it. |
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Post by MartinT on May 7, 2023 11:00:36 GMT
I love that Aurora, will have a listen to the album Infections of a Different Kind - Step 1.
Reminds me of Oh Land.
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Post by brettj on May 7, 2023 12:18:35 GMT
Hey Tobias
You have jumped in. And really enjoying yourself too!
My system has changed markedly in the last five years.
Pretty much coincides with TAS discussions.
I bought switches and had their clocks upgraded. Not sure anyone else here went that route. But the end result will be similar; very satisfied with the results.
For my major power upgrade, I'm seriously saving for a Puritan PSM156.
Consider some Black Ravioli pads and big pads under your gear. I was sceptical, but now have 28 of them (and plan to get more after the Puritan purchase).
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(I guess that will be even more interesting as my system resolution evolves...)
