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Post by MikeMusic on Sept 25, 2014 7:49:22 GMT
But but but
what about all those not cheap connectors for interconnects and mains ?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2014 8:38:48 GMT
I am pretty sure that the best connector is no connector.
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Post by MikeMusic on Sept 25, 2014 8:53:30 GMT
Quite
but the best connector always seems to be Unobtainium at Unobtainium prices
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2014 10:46:35 GMT
That is why I asked the question about connectors.
I had a look and saw some Audiofool prices. In the grand scheme of things, not too bad, but bear in mind that my cables cost me €22, so there in no way I wanted to spend more on bling connectors.
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Post by MikeMusic on Sept 25, 2014 12:16:33 GMT
I'd be surprised if expensive wasn't at least a bit better than cheap
Can happen of course
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2014 17:03:25 GMT
True, but where do you draw the line?
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Post by MikeMusic on Sept 25, 2014 17:11:44 GMT
If you can test you're laughing.
This seems more awkward unless you have both
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Post by MartinT on Sept 25, 2014 17:11:51 GMT
When your value judgement calls it a day. In other words, the threshold for each person is different according to their expendable income, other interests to spend it on, dependents, how passionate they are on music, what level of excellence they desire etc. There is no single answer which is why debate around cables can get so fiery.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2014 17:35:31 GMT
But with all things HiFi, the law of diminishing returns comes into play.
How much do you pay for the brand name? Take these belden cables for example. If they are the same as the marketed product, it costs about £10/m to buy off the drum. Buy fully finished from a dealer £160/m. I know people have to make a living etc. but everybody is getting one hell of a mark up.
I am pretty sure it's the same with connectors.
If you go for connectors, would you go for natural finish, gold, silver or rhodium plated?
How do you test all of them without spending loads of money, and how much difference does a small piece of metal make at the end of a cable?
In my system, I am not quite sure I would be able to tell the difference, yet.
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Post by MartinT on Sept 25, 2014 17:56:45 GMT
I find that pretty much any change can be audible, which is why I'm so careful when changing things around now.
Diminishing returns and mark-up: yes, I agree entirely. Two different examples are TQ and Yannis. TQ make a speaker cable, Ultra Black, that I know and use. It looks entirely ordinary, in fact quite unimpressive. What is does is superb, though, and I've yet to hear a better speaker cable in my system. Can I get it off the reel elsewhere? I very strongly doubt it! I have no idea of its materials or construction, but something interesting is going on, I'm sure.
As for Yannis, he hand builds the cables from scratch: silver cores, sleeves, shielding, outer sheaf. It must be laborious. How he does it for reasonable money, I don't know. It's almost the best interconnect cable I've heard in my system (TonyC's are better). Can you get it off the reel elsewhere? No chance!
So with both the above examples I either put up or shut up, so I bought them on the basis that they perform extremely well and I could afford them. Others may, as I said previously, be utterly baffled by my choices.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2014 18:07:32 GMT
I get more of a kick out of building my own cables (on a budget) than spending money to have someone else do it. I'm currently saving up for a decent pre-amp.
I have been really surprised just how well the latest two discoveries have worked in other peoples systems. I am sure that they are not a match for the Yannis cables, but we are not in the same ballpark for material/price. These are just shielded copper cables.
I'd love to hear the TQ Ultra Black just to see how the Belden cable compares. As the Belden is two individual runs of cable, spacing them apart is no issue for me, as my amps are mounted on the base of my speaker stands. The only thing that puts me off TQUB, is the ridiculous price tag. I am sure that it is good, and it may even be better than what I have now, but is it that much better that it is worth the cost?
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Post by MartinT on Sept 25, 2014 20:21:42 GMT
but is it that much better that it is worth the cost? Guess I already answered that as I bought it 
It might help if you know that I actually 'downgraded' and the TQ UB didn't cost me a penny. My previous cable was Kimber Select KS-3035 and if you look up the price make sure you're sitting down first. The TQ destroyed it (and I don't say that lightly, it beat the Kimber in every aspect of performance). I sold the Kimber, bought the TQ and made a profit.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2014 15:05:29 GMT
My point was that going from my €50 cable to a €600 cable, will I get 12 times the difference?
How much better will the TQUB be, if it is better? I'm not prepared to spend €600 to find out, but it's got to be marginal.
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Post by MartinT on Sept 26, 2014 16:15:43 GMT
My point was that going from my €50 cable to a €600 cable, will I get 12 times the difference? No, of course not, although I don't know how '12 times better' would sound. It's incremental and very dependent on whether your system as a whole will reveal the capabilities of the superior cable. I see cables as moving with the equipment: as you progress along an upgrade path, you need to carry the cables up too otherwise they become the limiting factor. |
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Post by MikeMusic on Sept 26, 2014 17:00:19 GMT
My point was that going from my €50 cable to a €600 cable, will I get 12 times the difference? How much better will the TQUB be, if it is better? I'm not prepared to spend €600 to find out, but it's got to be marginal. Get some in to test before committing |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2014 17:46:18 GMT
I was hoping to in order to find out, but not many people have demo sets of TQ Ultra Black in the vicinity.
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Post by MartinT on Sept 26, 2014 17:59:27 GMT
Try MCRU and Devine Audio.
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Post by Chris on Sept 27, 2014 1:27:38 GMT
The short answer wonky is that it's not. I just got a loan of expensive interconnects ( same principle applies) and the difference they made,IMO,wasn't worth the extra money. Buy something semi decent and spend the rest on drink and music. You'll feel much better for it.
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Post by gazjam on Sept 27, 2014 15:22:32 GMT
especially the drink...
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