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Post by ChrisB on Dec 12, 2019 9:57:04 GMT
Did you get around to trying a proper Hartley Boffle arrangement at all, Stu?
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Post by karatestu on Dec 12, 2019 10:11:09 GMT
No i never went the whole hog. It still find it a very interesting concept worthy of investigation. I shall have to try it at some point but recently i have gone off in other directions. Being from the NVA school of speaker design i had to be careful to stay true to my ideals  All stuffing, electrical or mechanical filters being evil  I came to the conclusion that the internal material used for the boffle were verging on being classed as the very thing i was trying to stay away from. Lately though, i have become more relaxed about the mechanical filters i so never say never. I tried some stuffing (pillows) in my bass cubes not so long back and i thought it made the music go to sleep  |
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Post by MartinT on Dec 12, 2019 10:55:37 GMT
Hah! It can sometimes be difficult at first to separate resonances from true excitement in speakers.
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Post by John on Dec 12, 2019 11:40:10 GMT
Mine is under 3 feet away from the wall. I think Vic of TransFi is a bit over 3 feet from the wall. When I used open baffles they were about 3 to 6 inches further out.
With the approach, I use, you need a lot of watts to shift the bass drivers. I am using a class D amplifier and just use its internal DSP to act as a crossover.
Yes, the approach really helps dig deeper into what is going on in the bass. I listen to a lot of Jazz so great to get the extra texture that you usually have to spend a lot more money to get.
It is not an approach for most people due to the industrial looks.
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Post by John on Dec 12, 2019 11:44:47 GMT
Here a picture of the Beyma and PRV The Beyma has better treble The PRV has more mid-end punch They have quite similar specs and work well together  |
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Post by John on Dec 12, 2019 12:20:53 GMT
A fascinating approach. I can imagine a very clean and fast sound, but can they do a reasonably flat frequency response as well? I guess DSP is your friend here. Must admit I'd be very curious to hear them with classical music. It is only in the last few months that I have started to enjoy classical music and think my system has helped with this journey of discovery |
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Post by karatestu on Dec 12, 2019 14:20:46 GMT
Hah! It can sometimes be difficult at first to separate resonances from true excitement in speakers. You could be right there but with two 12" doped drivers in clamshell isobaric the back wave will have a harder time coming back out than with regular drivers (imo ofc). |
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Post by karatestu on Dec 12, 2019 14:22:42 GMT
Mine is under 3 feet away from the wall. I think Vic of TransFi is a bit over 3 feet from the wall. When I used open baffles they were about 3 to 6 inches further out. With the approach, I use, you need a lot of watts to shift the bass drivers. I am using a class D amplifier and just use its internal DSP to act as a crossover. Yes, the approach really helps dig deeper into what is going on in the bass. I listen to a lot of Jazz so great to get the extra texture that you usually have to spend a lot more money to get. It is not an approach for most people due to the industrial looks. Thanks John. That is not as bad as i thought as regards distance from wall. The mention of high powered amps and DSP are two more reasons i don't think it can work for me. Is there any such thing as an open baffle line array ? |
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Post by MartinT on Dec 12, 2019 14:43:58 GMT
Lots of drivers moving small amounts each in an open baffle line array could work very well.
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Post by John on Dec 12, 2019 14:51:52 GMT
Yes as Martin says lots of Line array open baffles designs. Great if you love impact
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Post by karatestu on Dec 12, 2019 15:11:32 GMT
Thanks for the info. Can you imagine a floor to ceiling open baffle line array  |
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Post by MartinT on Dec 12, 2019 15:39:58 GMT
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Post by juvefootball on Jun 4, 2020 10:11:08 GMT
Hi all - just joining this thread, and very interested in this project! I have a couple of questions - mostly for John, but I’d welcome others’ views. Is there any specific advantage to mounting/suspending the drivers so that they sit horizontal to the floor, with the drivers moving toward/away from the listener? Could you instead suspend the drivers in a vertically stacked arrangement - still face to face, with the magnet of the lower driver facing toward the floor and the magnet of the upper driver facing toward the ceiling? The upper driver could be suspended from a point above, and the lower driver could be suspended with cables from the upper driver. If this didn’t negatively affect performance, it would take up less floor space and result in a sort of ‘inside out hourglass’ form that might be easier to “mask” aesthetically with grilles/cloth? |
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Post by John on Jun 4, 2020 10:50:25 GMT
Basically I am just isolating the drivers as much as I can from the frame to limit vibration influences on sound. The approach to isolating the drivers is simple and cost effective
I have no idea if you approach would be better, similar or worse. But as long as it is isolating the drivers from the frame is worth trying
I think more importantly is understanding the approach taken towards what drivers are being used
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Post by John on Jun 4, 2020 11:42:15 GMT
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Post by juvefootball on Jun 4, 2020 13:40:38 GMT
Thanks John. I see the PRVs and Dayton UM-18s (at the link you shared) seem to be a super dynamic combo. Could be worth a prototype as a vertical stack from a simple but sturdy wooden frame!
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Post by John on Jun 4, 2020 15:44:31 GMT
I would consider the Faitals in Line array I am now using 4 x 3inch and 2 x 4inch per channel Its cheaper and is a few steps up in performance please see my blog for further details
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Post by John on Jun 5, 2020 6:36:57 GMT
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Post by Mr Whippy on Jun 10, 2020 17:38:40 GMT
Instinctively, this was hard to accept. But after seeing the graphics in the Townshend vid and hearing the clip in the second, it's hard to argue.
I've just bought a dozen squash balls (£17). I reckon a couple of platforms with outriggers having holes could be fabricated, and then simply locating them on top of the 3 or 4 squash balls, and then the speaker stands on top:
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Post by MartinT on Jun 10, 2020 19:34:53 GMT
I can attest to how effective the Townshend Podiums are. It's counter-intuitive, but everything improves especially the bass. It really helps not to load up room modes.
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All stuffing, electrical or mechanical filters being evil 
I came to the conclusion that the internal material used for the boffle were verging on being classed as the very thing i was trying to stay away from. Lately though, i have become more relaxed about the mechanical filters i so never say never. 
