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Post by John on Jun 28, 2019 20:01:16 GMT
I have been making some radical changes lately. My friend has gone down a total baffle-less route Using small scaffolding poles as the frames and the drivers. So I knew this approach works. I have decided to go down a similar route. At the moment it not wired neatly but it is working. I am loving the lack of colouration, but more on that later. Before I report back my initial findings it might be good to write about my journey so far. In the past, I changed speakers quite often but this changed radically when I moved to Open Baffle speakers. This was due to hearing Vic Open Baffles and being interested I did a lot of research and decided to go down the Hawthorne route. It was not too expensive, a simple design to build, with good community support, can do rock music justice and can be easily modified. My first attempt was 3/4 ply. I liked the way that Clive Bastanis looked and with the help of Vic we came up with the figure 8 speakers that made a huge statement in looks. Lovely speakers but when I heard what Vic was achieving with his almost Baffles design I changed my speakers to follow a similar path. Using the PRV 5MR450-NDY and the Selenium Neo in a semi isobaric configuration This was quite a radical change and opened up the sound a lot. I have now gone totally baffle-less. I have been tempted for a while. But I have been kind of scared with the radical approach. I have been very happy with my speakers and hard to imagine how things can be improved, even when you hear how it has improved a familiar system. I think the final inspiration was how much the Podiums helped Martin. I knew another route and finally asked my friend to build the frame.  |
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Post by John on Jun 29, 2019 5:00:11 GMT
I think the frames give an industrial look that is a bit harsh on the eyes, but certainly not the ears. There is something about the PRV drivers that allows them to perform at their best in the open air. They are very linear drivers that unlike a lot of full range drivers have no tizz and do not try to go low. They start to roll off around 250 so need supplementing in the bass.
To be honest I was a bit scared to get it fully running What would happen if I accidentally had the bass drivers in phase. So when listening for the first time I started the volume quite low. My first thought was even at low volumes this sounded really good. I usually have to turn up quite a bit to get the best out of the speakers but not this time.
I guess the biggest change is the lack of colouration the speakers have. Acoustic guitars have taken on a new life and vibrancy that take you closer to the performance and gives a greater sense of being there. Certainly, more detail, depth and flow from the drivers.
Moving from Open Baffles to almost baffle-less was a big change in performance. Going totally baffle-less is a similar upgrade in insight and depth.
I still have a bit of room for improvements. At the moment the cabling is a bit thrown together so need to tidy that up. The other bit is more system based I have just ordered a new hub, hopefully, this will allow my network player to work. This should smooth the highs as pretty sure my laptop is adding a bit of harshness into the system.
A big thank you has to go out to Vic who came up with the design and the build. When we initially spoke about doing this we were not certain it was going to make a difference I kept the old wooden baffles in case I thought it was a backward step. The old baffles will go to the refuse site on Sunday. The metal frames will be staying in the system.
This approach is always going to have a very limited appeal. But if you want a cost-effective solution to getting the best sound possible and not worried about aesthetics this is the way to go.
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Post by MikeMusic on Jun 29, 2019 9:53:05 GMT
Radical compared to most John
Really glad it works so well
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Post by MartinT on Jun 29, 2019 9:54:51 GMT
We're watching your progress with interest, John.
You and I have radically different equipment approaches towards similar preferences in sound!
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Post by John on Jun 29, 2019 12:16:55 GMT
It's heading in a similar direction as yours Martin in terms of presention you will have to come and listen once I sorted everything
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Post by John on Jun 29, 2019 18:29:37 GMT
I am not even getting harshness in the treble as I had the cables adapted and tidied up. More work to be done
I still find it hard to come to terms with the performance I am hearing
This is now very dynamic and open
Martin when it all finished you will have to come over
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Post by John on Jul 2, 2019 8:00:05 GMT
A few tracks still show up a bit of Harshness but know its not the driver's
The system improvements reinforces my thinking that speakers and room have the biggest influence on sounds
I am also left with the thought that unfortunately this approach will never take off I think 2 reasons for this
1 Most people will have major issues over looks. Domestically they look to harsh for most people
2 The belief that this approach cannot work I totally get that I would of thought the same as standard thinking would suggest it cannot work
At some point I might put better bass drivers I think I must be going down somewhere between 28 to 32 The Neos are not the last word in bass But it rocks and does great double bass which I tend to appreciate
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Post by MartinT on Jul 2, 2019 9:32:47 GMT
The system improvements reinforces my thinking that speakers and room have the biggest influence on sounds So very true, John. |
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Post by Eduardo Wobblechops on Jul 2, 2019 19:19:37 GMT
Good stuff John, have just picked up a pair of Bastanis OB's.
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Post by John on Jul 2, 2019 19:24:12 GMT
The Bastanis are either love or hate. I could never have gone down the route myself. But hopefully, you enjoy them the same way Clive and Vic do
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Post by Eduardo Wobblechops on Jul 2, 2019 19:59:28 GMT
What did you think was wrong with them?
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Post by Clive on Jul 2, 2019 20:00:10 GMT
I felt the same way about the Hawthorns John! Haha...just shows how we all listen for different things.
The PRVs I like in Vic's room, they just don't work in mine; I get physical pain from certain frequencies, just in my room. Chrystal Bastanis with 1" tweets aren't perfect but they are good at a number of things. My current Bastanis are the same old layout but different very drivers, especially the widebands. The tweeters are 1.4 inch so the horn has a wider throat.
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Post by John on Jul 2, 2019 20:12:20 GMT
As Clive points out we all have our preferences with regards to the Sound
I just never felt like following that path
The PRV I just love. They capable of just giving you an open Window.
The Hawthrones are nice and civilised but some might call that a bit boring. Although mine were mod a lot and that helped. Still not a patch on the PRV baffle-less design
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Post by Eduardo Wobblechops on Jul 2, 2019 20:29:45 GMT
What drivers do you run now Clive?
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Post by Clive on Jul 2, 2019 20:37:00 GMT
Ali, I run the drivers from Sagarmatha. They are more relaxed and need open sounding electonics. The Chrystals can be a little explicit in the upper mid with explicit electronics. It's a question of synergy.
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Post by Clive on Jul 2, 2019 20:50:46 GMT
I recall that John wasn't keen on how guitars sounded....the curse of a musician rather than an audiophile for a change! I was fine with guitar sounds but I don't play.
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Post by ChrisB on Jul 2, 2019 21:08:17 GMT
I'm still struggling to work out exactly how you have the drivers mounted John - I can't work it out from the picture in the OP
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Post by John on Jul 3, 2019 4:11:21 GMT
They are just suspended on elastic wires, Chris. The PRV has 4 wires at each corner that has a bit of tension in them.  The bass drivers have a couple of screws in them and the elastic wires support the full weight of the driver.  The wires are connected to the metal poles and then support the drivers.  The drivers are isolated and totally suspended. This increases depth, detail and imaging. |
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Post by ChrisB on Jul 3, 2019 4:45:49 GMT
I see. OK got it now, thanks.
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Post by Eduardo Wobblechops on Jul 3, 2019 6:14:07 GMT
Ali, I run the drivers from Sagarmatha. They are more relaxed and need open sounding electonics. The Chrystals can be a little explicit in the upper mid with explicit electronics. It's a question of synergy. Thanks, I’ll have a look. |
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