|
|
Post by Clive on Jul 3, 2019 9:28:12 GMT
Ali, I run the drivers from Sagarmatha. They are more relaxed and need open sounding electonics. The Chrystals can be a little explicit in the upper mid with explicit electronics. It's a question of synergy. Thanks, I’ll have a look. HI Ali, I've sent your links for the drivers....rather than pollute John thread  |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2019 9:30:26 GMT
What are the objective disadvantages to adopting this style of speaker?
What are the biggest gains over a ‘typical’ design?
|
|
|
|
Post by Clive on Jul 3, 2019 9:57:36 GMT
What are the objective disadvantages to adopting this style of speaker? What are the biggest gains over a ‘typical’ design? Going baffle-less totally removes any cabinet resonances, even OB resonances cause issues - you only notice when you are free of a baffle. Suspending drivers flexibly works, even for big bass drivers - I have mine baffle-less in wood frames suspended by wires. It's counter-intuitive or counter traditional thinking. Aside from the warehouse looks which may or may not appeal...bass need loads of power to overcome the total lack of a baffle. I'm running 900W class D along with dsp for the crossover and room correction for the bass. The mid / treble driver done the way John has them are pretty sensitive and only need a few watts. The speakers are brutally revealing & crystal clear needing careful setup. If something is wrong in your system you'll soon know. Get it right and likewise you'll know it. |
|
|
|
Post by John on Jul 3, 2019 10:11:13 GMT
Not sure about objective reasoning for not using the design I can see some strong subjective reasons for not following this route
You do need to go active in the bass and have to carefully pick the right bass drivers
The bass drivers need a lot of power Vic has 3 Behringer wired up as mono blocks
Advantage of design philosophy
1 Drivers are isolated from vibrations This has a big impact on sound quality
2 No baffle to add colouration to the sound
3 The PRV is not trying to do to much in the frequency range
4 Great sound for not major bucks
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2019 10:37:32 GMT
Interesting concepts John. I like the way in which you explore new avenues to achieve your audio nirvana.
|
|
|
|
Post by John on Jul 3, 2019 10:59:51 GMT
Just following Vic
Willing to take the risks as know it works
|
|
|
|
Post by John on Jul 3, 2019 12:39:46 GMT
The major advantage would be the cost I know no other way off getting this performance without spending serious money
|
|
|
|
Post by John on Jul 7, 2019 13:36:50 GMT
I been mostly playing with the system trying to get the treble a bit more even. With the PRV drivers their is no hiding place for anything in the chain. I suspect the Black Cats will have to go as think I am now hitting the same issues as Martin had.
I have a few cables I can play with first
I rearranged my gear on my rack and now have the Neo drivers 180 so connecting from below
It's definitely a step up but might take a bit of time to get the treble where I want it
|
|
|
|
Post by John on Jul 7, 2019 16:13:50 GMT
A quick update I just put in a set of Bastanis cables between DAC and the black tulip and balance is a good bit better
I have a few more combinations to try over the next few days but want to give this a chance to settle in
|
|
|
|
Post by speedysteve on Jul 7, 2019 17:18:43 GMT
I wonder if a horn upper frequency set up from say 350Hz up would integrate with those bass drivers?
It would be great to think there's a smaller solution for me one day than the mid bass and tapped horns (= rather large), I currently use.
Have you measured the SPL and Freq resp of the bass driver pair?
|
|
|
|
Post by John on Jul 7, 2019 17:35:35 GMT
Just doing everything by ear but think I am cracking it
The Neo I'm rolling off about 340 but will play with this later I probably increase where it cutting off and try a less stepper cut off curve
No issues with the the upper bass
I am guessing they are cutting off around 28hz to 30hz so knowing your love of bass consider something like the Drayton Um18 great watching the driver move when placing a 5hz signal and hearing no sound
They would need lot's of Watts to drive however
|
|
|
|
Post by John on Jul 7, 2019 17:38:06 GMT
On a funny story I once had the Neos running as a full range driver by accident Lacked 3d but boy could they boggie
|
|
|
|
Post by John on Jul 8, 2019 4:13:16 GMT
The PRV will go down to about 150 but crossing over a lot higher helps fill out the sound. Going this way as I said there is no hiding place. Incredibly sensitive to what going on in the chain. It will probably take me a while to get this right. Whilst I can do on this on the fly I like to listen for a good few days before deciding if I need to make any more changes.
|
|
|
|
Post by jandl100 on Jul 8, 2019 6:38:56 GMT
A fascinating approach.
I can imagine a very clean and fast sound, but can they do a reasonably flat frequency response as well? I guess DSP is your friend here.
Must admit I'd be very curious to hear them with classical music.
|
|
|
|
Post by John on Jul 8, 2019 7:04:23 GMT
When I feel I got the balance right I will invite Jules Getting a lot closer just think in crossover which I will get sorted as soon as I have the network player running as a server I don't really want to play with the crossover until my front end is operating correctly
I think I got the treble okay now I just think need a bit more body in the sound which I am pretty sure I can get right
I am no expert in DSP Jerry but the Inuke is quite intuitive and can do whilst listening
|
|
|
|
Post by speedysteve on Jul 8, 2019 15:56:44 GMT
Just doing everything by ear but think I am cracking it The Neo I'm rolling off about 340 but will play with this later I probably increase where it cutting off and try a less stepper cut off curve No issues with the the upper bass I am guessing they are cutting off around 28hz to 30hz so knowing your love of bass consider something like the Drayton Um18 great watching the driver move when placing a 5hz signal and hearing no sound They would need lot's of Watts to drive however A bridged Cerwin Vega beast per channel should do it  (=1800wpc into 8ohms) Yes, I need deeeeeeep! I do wonder how an 18" would manage to sound good on 300Hz mid bass though. Perhaps 4x 12" for mid bass and 4x 18" for the deep stuff. Would still be a fraction of footprint and weight of what I have! Actually, I wonder how 4x my JBL2220 15" in mid bass and 4x my Eminence 15" Kappa LFII pros would do? Probably not quite deep enough.. How efficient do you think the drivers are faced up like you do? Efficiency can be garnered simply enough by just adding more driver pairs.. might not be necessary though. |
|
|
|
Post by John on Jul 8, 2019 17:28:58 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by speedysteve on Jul 8, 2019 18:11:47 GMT
Thx.
88.6dB/w.
Does doubling them face to face add much?
I've no experience of that.
My tapped horns are 105dB/w.
The difference in cone excursion of the two solutions is interesting.
The 18"'ers quoting max 2" throw! That's 1" either way.
I'm not clear at what dB levels that would be though.
My tapped horns have a modelled max cone excursion of 2.4mm at 115dB.
|
|
|
|
Post by Clive on Jul 8, 2019 18:32:56 GMT
There are big losses without a baffle but power compensates. Also if you are close to the drivers it's quite a physical experience.
I use 900W with my 15 inch Daytons. It's just enough in an 18 x 15 room.
|
|
|
|
Post by John on Jul 8, 2019 19:11:53 GMT
My own take is power is the key
Putting them back to back is my own personal favourite configuration I have heard quite a few and it does help Baffle have good and bad points So can make easier to drive but add colouration IMHO
|
|
