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Post by MartinT on Oct 30, 2017 9:45:17 GMT
Alonso is tough but fair. It was a good overtake.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2017 11:46:53 GMT
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Post by robbiegong on Oct 30, 2017 18:50:57 GMT
My thoughts exactly when I saw it - It won't spoil the party or change the 4 😂
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Post by speedysteve on Nov 26, 2017 18:16:09 GMT
Guy Martin F1 challenge. More exciting than the race today
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2017 18:35:03 GMT
Yep, the race was rather dull wasn’t it, Steve. Bottas did well to keep Lewis behind mind you.
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Post by MartinT on Nov 27, 2017 10:18:16 GMT
That circuit is dull and doesn't allow much overtaking. It's a shame to have ended the season that way.
Next year is going to be interesting with (hopefully) three teams right at the front with similar performance. You never know, McLaren might be up there, too.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2017 10:22:46 GMT
I really hope so, Martin, whilst I am no great fan of Alonso, he is still probably one of the best guys on the grid.
Lewis is right at the top of his game, as are Mercedes, so I suspect it they will be hard to beat again next year though.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2017 12:56:35 GMT
I think next year will be a snoozathon. Ferrari seem to have dropped back and nobody else seems to be making great strides. Bottas is a typical journeyman No.2 driver AFAIC with the sort of benign temperament we saw from Rubens Barrichello when he partnered Schumacher. I expect Hamilton to win big next year and have the title sewn up really early.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2017 13:08:12 GMT
To me it depends on whether this was a payback year for Lewis from a Mercedes perspective, because they knew they had to keep him sweet following the calamitous technical failures he experienced in 2016 and Nico Rosberg announcing his unexpected retirement.
If that is the case, I suspect that we'll see Bottas a lot closer to Lewis next year, although on downright skill, I still would imagine Lewis would win. I too doubt Ferrari will bounce back, and until that Renault engine improves (which it hasn't done enough yet in the hybrid era) I doubt Red Bull or McLaren will get right up to the top rung.
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Post by Clive on Nov 27, 2017 13:48:17 GMT
How much Merc improve next year is down to how well they've assessed the issues with the current car. I don't expect a step with the engine - especially as it'll be 3 engines for the whole season. From my ill-formed perspective I expect they'll consider the basic parameters of the car, ie the shallower rake angle of the Merc and its longer wheelbase. They've also had all this year to come to terms with the suspension changes that were forced on them pre-season. Will they go with a RB / Ferrari rake and wheelbase or will they go for a halfway house? Will any changes make it easier for them to follow other cars?
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Post by MartinT on Nov 27, 2017 13:56:13 GMT
I think Merc will struggle to make big aero advances, and their engine is already the best. Ferrari stand every chance of being up there with them as their chassis is possibly better and their engine just needs some more reliability.
Red Bull and McLaren have a bigger issue with the Renault engine, although again both have good chassis.
It could be two teams or up to four vying for the championship next year.
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Post by speedysteve on Nov 27, 2017 15:52:43 GMT
Guy Martin F1 challenge. More exciting than the race today The next prog Guy Martin Vs the robot car was even better. Bring it on. AI Vs Lewis..
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2017 10:43:24 GMT
So the season has come to an end, what are everyone's thoughts?
In my opinion, Lewis did a great job and is a very worthy champion, he stepped up his game a lot in the second half of the season, but there is no denying he was helped by Ferrari and Vettel in the closing stages of the championship as they imploded. Bottas was a good number 2 to Lewis, I very much doubt he will ever be a champion whilst Lewis is in the other car.
Vettel showed himself up more this year than before, he has always been a little bit erratic, but in his previous championship years, his machinery always allowed him enough of an advantage that we didn't see all of his traits come out. Up against possibly the greatest F1 driver of his generation in a Mercedes, Vettel struggled and I am not sure he would be a match for Lewis next year either, unless the Ferrari is miles better.
Mercedes had their usual strength, the introduced a fast car at the beginning of the season (if a bit diva like), and managed to develop it throughout the year to marvelous outcomes.
Red Bull have a great pairing, and I genuinely think that Max will be a World Champion at some point. I fear for Riccardio in the Red Bull camp, as he is clearly a good driver and deserves to be treated equally and given the commitment they have shown to Max, I doubt he will get that going forward. I foresee a Webber scenario happening for Riccardio if he stays there.
Best of the rest, Force India did their usual of performing above their means financially and have a great pairing. I think Ocon is a future Champion and will likely see off Checo in the long run.
Renault improved their car a lot this year, but they still need to sort out the reliability of the engine. Hulkenburg showed he is a reasonable driver, top, no but probably on the next run down. Palmer is gone and should never be invited back, he was just useless. Sainz on the other hand I believe has a lot of potential. I am not sure he has the raw talent of say Lewis or even Max, but he works hard so has potential.
Toro Rosso were ok this year, they seem to have a good chassis, but struggled with the engine, their 2018 driver line up should be interesting to watch, but I have to admit that neither of them look like future champions to me, maybe a little unfair given that they have only done a couple of races each, but worth watching.
McLaren, what can we say about them, Alonso still has the driving skill that he always had, although I don't rate him anywhere near as highly as some others do. He did drag that car into places it didn't deserve to be though, so fair play to him. Vandorme was much better in the second half of the season, he showed great promise, but a future champion?, I have my doubts. Lets see how they both fair with a better engine in their car next year.
Sauber, one to forget for them this year, their car was pretty darn slow, although Pascal managed to do well with the machinery he had, shame we are unlikely to see him in F1 again next year, or possibly ever again. Ericsson was just his usual below par pay driver style, hopefully they will forgo his millions and put someone decent in there next year, certainly they have a better chance next year with Alfa Romeo sponsorship and a more up to date Ferrari engine.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2017 12:00:47 GMT
Good summary, Paul. I particularly liked (and agreed with) your analysis of Ricciardo/Verstappen and its similarity to the old Webber/Vettel situation. I also agree Bottas won't be champion anytime soon. In fact I don't think he will ever be a champ. He's a solid gold number 2 in his temperament and character. I'd love to see a proper threat in the other Merc but it won't happen. It's the Ferrari Schumacher era all over again.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2017 12:13:01 GMT
Oh I don't know, Andrew, Rosberg (unfortunately) gave Lewis a good run for his money at times. I have a feeling that Ricciardo may go to Mercedes in 2019 as a future long-term replacement for Lewis, but you never know.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2017 12:37:46 GMT
I agree about Rosberg, but this new partnership is typical of the Schumacher/Barrichello years.
its a dismal situation when the only person who can challenge you is the guy in an identical car. It's exponentially worse when that guy is either contractually bound from beating you, or simply content to play rear-gunner for season after season.
I get that F1 is a team sport, but I don't have to like it. In fact, I'd say that the way teams have manufactured results with team orders, favouritism and contractual restrictions over the years is not compatible with the notion of a "sport". It's also a complete turn-off as far as I'm concerned.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2017 12:58:02 GMT
I agree that is what happens at Ferrari, but I am not sure it is exactly what happened at Mercedes this year, Bottas was simply not as fast as or as complete racer as Lewis throughout the majority of the year, although I am biased . Ferarri have always played favourites, and have a number 1 driver, which I agree doesn't impress me and is a really bad, but I doubt it will change anytime soon. Sergio Marchionne calling Raikkonen a laggard this year seemed to destroy and remaining spark he had.
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Post by MartinT on Nov 30, 2017 13:25:24 GMT
You forgot Haas.
But you were right, best forgotten. Whinge-bag and crash kid.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2017 17:25:57 GMT
You forgot Haas. But you were right, best forgotten. Whinge-bag and crash kid. I knew I’d forget one. Haas, well what can be said about them? Grosjean reminds me of one of those really annoying swurps at school who like to tell the teacher all of the things that the other students have done wrong... plus he’s a pretty average driver who thinks he’s better than the rest. Oh and he crashes A LOT and continuously moans about the car. Kevin Magnussen had one really good drive in his first race for McLaren but since then he’s been average at best. He likes to be the naughty driver, so I’m surprised he gets on ok with his team mate considering. Overall I think the team could do a lot better if they employed two much more competent drivers.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2017 17:32:40 GMT
Grosjean is a real grade A "tit". He thinks he's the next Ayrton Senna when in reality he'd be better off driving bumper cars. He's the "Frank Spencer" of F1 IMO. Other than that he's a helluva guy!
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