Paul
Rank: Trio
Posts: 157
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Post by Paul on Jul 7, 2014 13:13:40 GMT
I've had an interest in getting back into playing vinyl but have been somewhat put-off by all the faff that seems to surround it. I'm not saying it isn't worth it, but to the uninitiated it can be a little daunting; Buying a Turntable and Pre-amp seem to be only the start.
So, with Turntable and Phono Pre-amp in hand what other kit would you say is essential in getting the best from those charity shop finds and new vinyl.
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Post by danielquinn on Jul 7, 2014 13:23:20 GMT
brush for cleaning the dimond/cantilever Accurate tracking weight device cartridge alignment tool - vinyl engine free ones are good enough if your tt as a d.c motor - rpm counter - free strobe disk is good enough
----------- Anything else is not needed , but can be more fun if that way inclined .
RCM's in my opinion save time/hassle , they do not impart magic cleaning properties that aren't available to the hand washer .
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Post by pinkie on Jul 7, 2014 13:56:37 GMT
Gosh - and there was me thinking records, amplifier, speakers, sofa. Quite right though DQ. I may beg to differ a little on the RCM. I agree it is just a way of spreading a cleaning solution and hoovering it out, but the hoovering out makes an important difference. And it is a lot more convenient with a machine. Although, as I recently proved to myself, perfectly do-able with a modified crevice tool (it helps to have a wet vac like the vax, with variable suction - although if you don't have variable suction you can just drill holes in the non-record side of the crevice tool until the force is enough to get the gunk out, but not so much the record won't turn.
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Post by julesd68 on Jul 7, 2014 14:09:42 GMT
+1 for the RCM, especially if you're going to be buying the charity shop vinyl ...
After cleaning the vinyl I wouldn't be without my new anti-stat inner sleeves to replace both old ones and also the inner sleeves you get with some new vinyl that are like sand-paper and leave lots of annoying hair-lines.
I find the Audio Technica AT-607 stylus cleaner excellent as well ...
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Post by danielquinn on Jul 7, 2014 14:35:43 GMT
I did conceded the convenience point vis a vis rcm Gents , are you suggesting the addition of a vacuum pump reaps SQ rewards , if so then I have difficulty believing it . it is also impossible to prove . You can't clean the record both ways and finding two identical used records is impossible . You can technically buy 2 new records [ if you believe cleaning new records benefits these as well ] , but nobody's as done that have they
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Post by MikeMusic on Jul 7, 2014 14:50:40 GMT
Think about buying a complete system from Ebay or similar. I got one for around £100, collect only Luton
Hearing it working would be good, not essential if they have good feedback
All 2nd hand gear is a risk of course, but it gets you on the ladder. You might even say that's ok for you
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Post by pinkie on Jul 7, 2014 15:20:04 GMT
I did conceded the convenience point vis a vis rcm Gents , are you suggesting the addition of a vacuum pump reaps SQ rewards , if so then I have difficulty believing it . it is also impossible to prove . You can't clean the record both ways and finding two identical used records is impossible . You can technically buy 2 new records [ if you believe cleaning new records benefits these as well ] , but nobody's as done that have they That's a very objectivist reply! But again, I beg to differ. You can clean wet and unhoovered, and listen to the record and then clean again wet and hoovered and listen to the record. I made a real mess of some of my records years ago wet cleaning, and have been really pleased how they have cleaned up with the "wet and hoover" method. Not easy to try with your beautiful Anni - you need an old dog of a DD or idler to use as a cleaning machine turntable (actually any old broken solid would do, since I end up needing to assist the motor with a judicious finger on the record label with the Numax. But unlike other areas of subjectivism that are "one shot" (like cable burn-in) record cleaning you can go back and do again. Wet clean and hoover will make good the half-cock job done by wet clean alone (20 years ago in my case)
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Post by danielquinn on Jul 7, 2014 15:28:24 GMT
I am happy to accept the difference you heard pinky . However , you will never know if the effect of the second clean was just the effect of the second clean
If I was an objectivist I would of course be saying that all the time and trouble you went to making your own vacuum machine lead to an expection bias but of course I aint an objectivist .
Edit - I suppose it you wet cleaned it alone six times and then did a vacuum clean and it was better ,I may begin to concede the efficacy
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Post by pinkie on Jul 7, 2014 15:38:41 GMT
Awe shucks DQ, you know me, I'm a died in the wool subjectivist. If I think it sounds cleaner it *MUST* sound cleaner. Exactly!
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Paul
Rank: Trio
Posts: 157
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Post by Paul on Jul 7, 2014 15:44:39 GMT
Assuming no RCM to begin with, and taking note of the points raised, which wet clean formula/product is preferable?
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Post by Pinch on Jul 7, 2014 16:36:02 GMT
75-80% distilled water + 20-25% isopropyl alcohol seems to be a popular solution for wet cleaning, coupled with something like this (I haven't used one of these so can't say how well or poorly it performs). But for the most part, I make do with letting the record rotate a couple of times against a velvet pad ( this sort of thing), then removing the remaining line of dust with a small brush ( this is the most effective one I've used).
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Post by danielquinn on Jul 7, 2014 17:00:11 GMT
Pinch first you hussled me now you stole my post. Pinch indeed
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Post by Pinch on Jul 7, 2014 17:05:49 GMT
Hah! Apologies DQ
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Post by danielquinn on Jul 7, 2014 17:10:28 GMT
No need. It was simply my way of saying I can not better your post
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2014 17:54:03 GMT
I did conceded the convenience point vis a vis rcm Gents , are you suggesting the addition of a vacuum pump reaps SQ rewards , if so then I have difficulty believing it . it is also impossible to prove . You can't clean the record both ways and finding two identical used records is impossible . You can technically buy 2 new records [ if you believe cleaning new records benefits these as well ] , but nobody's as done that have they Having used various manual wet cleaning methods incl disco-antistat bath that rely on moping up or air drying I can state without doubt that a vacuum device improves the sound. Only sure way of getting all the gunk out of the groove. Also cleaning fluids that don't tend to leave their own deposit are preferable otherwise a good rinse with purified water is required. I'm trying out 'The Right One' cleaning fluid with my Okki Nokki at the present and it appears to be very strong and effective.
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Marco
Rank: Trio
Banned
Posts: 242
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Post by Marco on Jul 7, 2014 19:37:41 GMT
I did conceded the convenience point vis a vis rcm Gents , are you suggesting the addition of a vacuum pump reaps SQ rewards , if so then I have difficulty believing it . Dennis, you can't suck the dirt out of record grooves (and therefore ensure that they are squeaky-clean) with anything other than a vacuum pump. Hand washing cleans the records, for sure, but all that happens is that once the dirt is loosened and the worst of it slides off, the remainder sits in the grooves, dries in and stays there until the stylus finds it (with the inevitable result heard in all its glory)! The only evidence you need to prove the efficacy of RCMs is to listen to a record previously cleaned by hand-washing, put it through an RCM, and then compare the 'before & after' results.... Marco.
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Post by pinkie on Jul 7, 2014 19:41:18 GMT
<abbr data-timestamp="1404761861000" class="time" title="Jul 7, 2014 20:37:41 GMT 1">Jul 7, 2014 20:37:41 GMT 1</abbr> marco said: you can't suck the dirt out of record grooves (and therefore ensure that they are squeaky-clean) with anything other than a vacuum pump. Hand washing cleans the records, for sure, but all that happens is that once the dirt is loosened and the worst of it slides off, the remainder sits in the grooves, dries in and stays there until the stylus finds it (with the inevitable result heard in all its glory)! The only evidence you need to prove the efficacy of RCMs is to listen to a record previously cleaned by hand-washing, put it through an RCM, and then compare the 'before & after' results.... Marco. I have to say that for once I agree completely
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Paul
Rank: Trio
Posts: 157
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Post by Paul on Jul 7, 2014 20:01:33 GMT
So basically what your saying is, once a record is wet cleaned it's best to suck it off. Ok, got that. 75-80% distilled water + 20-25% isopropyl alcohol seems to be a popular solution for wet cleaning, coupled with something like this (I haven't used one of these so can't say how well or poorly it performs). But for the most part, I make do with letting the record rotate a couple of times against a velvet pad ( this sort of thing), then removing the remaining line of dust with a small brush ( this is the most effective one I've used). Thanks for the links.
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Marco
Rank: Trio
Banned
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Post by Marco on Jul 7, 2014 20:10:03 GMT
So basically what your saying is, once a record is wet cleaned it's best to suck it off. Ok, got that. No worries, Paul. There's simply no other way of doing it effectively! Marco. P.S Pinkster, it's nice to agree sometimes
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2014 20:56:30 GMT
I did conceded the convenience point vis a vis rcm Gents , are you suggesting the addition of a vacuum pump reaps SQ rewards , if so then I have difficulty believing it . it is also impossible to prove . You can't clean the record both ways and finding two identical used records is impossible . You can technically buy 2 new records [ if you believe cleaning new records benefits these as well ] , but nobody's as done that have they Do you by chance still use one of those old fashioned carpet sweepers?
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