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Post by pinkie on Jun 27, 2014 22:27:16 GMT
It's a bit of a saga. More when I have a better keyboard, but I grew up near the Lowther factory, first heard pink Floyd dsom on them (my first proper record) and encountered them again at the pink factory in footscray. I decided I had to try a pair...
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Post by MartinT on Jun 27, 2014 22:48:12 GMT
The best Lowther (driver) I've ever heard was in a Hørning. Now that was an impressively fast speaker.
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Post by pinkie on Jun 28, 2014 6:58:48 GMT
The original slightly psychedelic romantic memory is a pair of acousta 124's playing dsom, and again as the workshop pa hooked up to a leak tuner at pt. It needed to be neater and trimmer to try at home, so I asked Gordon how much I should expect as a quote from a cabinet maker client based on the plans and the answer was about 4 times the price of a pair being sold in Norfolk - with superior (sic) audio nirvana supercast 8 drivers fitted. A friend in Suffolk collected them for me, and I collected them from him last weekend, when we were staying with them. It was clear he wasn't impressed. We listened to them in his large sitting room where his esl's are normally sited and they were grim. No bass, harsh shout mid, and congested on anything but the simplest program material, we set about fitting the ex3 drivers I had bought with me.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2014 7:05:07 GMT
How many parts is this going to take?
He thinks he is Dickens now and maybe we'll get monthly episodes!! :-)
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2014 7:33:20 GMT
I predict a sad and unexpected ending :-smiley(I need to find out where the smileys are at)
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Post by pinkie on Jun 28, 2014 7:36:11 GMT
Nah - internet problems, and problems with trying to use android in bed, and now I am getting nagged to fix a tap, so next installment later, and I can't find the smilies either but they were here less than an hour ago
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2014 7:38:14 GMT
Press reply instead of quote or quick reply and you get all the bumph    That sort of thing |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2014 7:51:50 GMT
got it, thanks....
seems the head scratcher is not on the list, probably the one I'm most likely to use.
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Post by DaveC on Jun 28, 2014 7:52:02 GMT
Press reply instead of quote or quick reply and you get all the bumph That sort of thing Even when you press quote you get the smiley button on the tool bar ! Dave |
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Post by pinkie on Jun 28, 2014 12:13:01 GMT
Press reply instead of quote or quick reply and you get all the bumph That sort of thing Oh yes. SIlly me! And a nice white on blue typeface too. Reminds me of the old BBC microcomputer! I'll reply instead of quoting, and continue my tale of woe (Impressed huh?) |
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Post by pinkie on Jun 28, 2014 12:20:31 GMT
Right. Where was I before BT's DNS servers screwed me up?
Lowthers sounding shite. Before attempting surgery, we opted to shove them against a wall. Owen has a great 25ft by 15ft (roughly) room and plays his ESL's 6ft apart 6-8ft off the back wall, with the sofa a good 10, maybe even 15ft away. ESL heaven (63's and 57's). But not Lowther heaven.
Put back to about a foot off the wall they sounded credible, but not very good. Vastly improved bass, subjectively reduced the treble "flare" but still pretty rough on anything but the simplest Eva Cassidy mix.
Remove drivers. Time for my first attempt at a photo on TAS - the surgeons at work
(with thanks to Chris for help with photo posting) -
The first surprise was that these heavy drivers were held by self-tappers in mdf, instead of captive nuts, and not very well held. Having removed one and tried to fit the Lowther replacement, we also found the holes didn't align, and there were no spare holes. We had to rotate the Lowthers about 5 degrees to get them to fit and drill new holes (also with self tappers, since no captive nuts to hand, and they are going to be a bit tricky). This was a bit sus, because although I only wanted the cabinets, the original fleabay ad stated "fitted with Audio Nirvana supercast 8 drivers, because I preferred these to the Lowthers". So presumably the speaker fairy came and filled the holes afterwards. Nothing to do with the AN's being $300 a pair, and the EX3's best part of £500 a driver  (itchy beard smilie needed!)
Next surprise - the internal wiring. The cabinets were reasonably well made - mechanically sound - but the wiring from the rear sockets was 2 bits of 5 amp mains solid core. The terminals on the back of the AN's were spades. The wires were hooked through the open spades - loose. Honest guv, would I lie to you? OK - you asked for it - another picture
Stunning! The Lowthers have combination posts on the drivers, so we put the wire through the hole and clamped the post (as a temporary measure - will use proper plugs for the final version to stop them working loose). However, the next disappointment after phase checks with a meter, and careful drilling of holes for new driver position, was on power up the right driver was dud.
We removed it, and tested - open circuit. I managed to contact the vendor over the course of the weekend on ebay, and he agreed we could try to dismantle and repair, but we bottled it. In the end I got a refund of £238 which is the cost of a "new for old" exchange of a driver at Lowther, whose factory is just up the road from me in Sidcup. Hopefully I can get up next week - they have drivers in stock.
Meanwhile we reassembled with the AN's and properly made connections using crimped spades, and settled back for another listen. Unremarkably, they were significantly improved! Still not great, but we actually sat down and enjoyed listening to them for half an hour or so, until the girlies dragged us out to the pub. Back close to the wall, the bass was not chest flattening, but good enough (they only had to compete with ESL's!). There was an "in the room" quality which was attractive, and on simpler material (even quite involved stuff) there was an immediacy and "live" "fast" feel. Still a bit coarse in the upper-mid or treble, and definitely not preferred to the ESL's , these were now a credible speaker.
On finally getting them home, and replacing the Ventricals with them, much the same applies. By no means bad, they have a room filling feel, and a vintage warmth (reminds me a bit of my Dads Bush Radiogram - 6 record stack-changer, and mums Bush valve radio, both of them in the same Walnut finish). Not keepers in this guise, I had reckoned to cut my losses and move them on if the lowthers were returned for a refund, but given that I had the partial refund to repair, I'm going to try that first. I'm intrigued to hear how the Lowthers sound. If they can improve the coarsness and congestion, I might forgive them the colouration and warmth, and find them quite attractive.
And so easy to drive I could add a flaky valve amp, Gordon - heaven forbid even a SET !
Quick, somebody shoot me now!
Anyway - enjoying a bit of mellow for at least a week or two
Does anyone have any recent experience with Lowthers, and any pointers or tips?
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Post by pinkie on Jun 28, 2014 15:34:48 GMT
I see editing my last post, instead of posting new doesn't bump me up the "recent posts". Vanity demands I cheat! |
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Post by MartinT on Jun 28, 2014 18:37:59 GMT
the wiring from the rear sockets was 2 bits of 5 amp mains solid core. The terminals on the back of the AN's were spades. The wires were hooked through the open spades - loose. Shocking! How on earth could they leave the wiring like that? Has some intermediary tampered with them? It sounds like your room may be partially to blame for the sound you're getting? |
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Post by pinkie on Jun 29, 2014 16:04:36 GMT
the wiring from the rear sockets was 2 bits of 5 amp mains solid core. The terminals on the back of the AN's were spades. The wires were hooked through the open spades - loose. Shocking! How on earth could they leave the wiring like that? Has some intermediary tampered with them? It sounds like your room may be partially to blame for the sound you're getting? The guy I bought them from had the cabinets made to Lowthers plans by a cabinet maker local to him, and then configured them himself. His ebay tale was that he tried the Lowther drivers first, and then preferred the Audio Nirvana's but lack of suitable holes and other factors cause me to think that may have been a fib. He clearly was fairly clueless about the wiring. The cables themselves are probably ok (although if I like the Lowther drivers when I fit them, I shall try some better cabling). They are just stiff and clutsy to work with. But looping them through the holes was really naff - and may account for why he felt the Lowther experiment hadn't worked and chose to move them on. However, the cabinet making, which he sub-contracted to a professional is to a reasonable standard - so they were a pair of cabinets as far as I was concerned, and I can now build proper Fidelios. It is one of the few designs Lowther sell as a complete speaker (£5634 list price) - in their case equipped with EX2 drivers. The EX3's have more powerful magnets and are a slight upgrade from "factory spec". It is possible to tune the final sound by not only picking the driver type but a silver voice coil instead of an aluminium one. (Silver suits a "live" room better - one with few furnishings since they slightly attenuate the top. If the balance stays as it is for the AN's but I am otherwise seduced, I might try silver coils, although my room is fairly well damped) The EX range feature "an acoustic chamber" allowing only bass frequencies to pass through into the rear horn - allegedly avoiding mid/bass confusion (and heaven only knows it could do with a bit of that at the moment). This basically involves sealing the edges at the back, and filling the rear with light acoustic foam (similar to the Ventrical port bungs). But that feature and rare earth magnets make the drivers a bit more sophisticated than the AN's and particularly suited to a rear horn design. They also have phase equalisers on the front ( a chamber with tuned tubes in it) to prevent unwanted oscillations of the voice coil. So if I can get up to the Lowther factory this week to do the swap, and get a working pair, then it should be interesting. And I can get back to evaluating Walpurgis Geoff's Shelter / Zyx busting Ortofon MC15FL which is waiting for me in a box which would save me a few hundred quid taking AK's xx20II off his hands. Was it you who described the XX20ii as "dark" with reference to your Shelter 5000? If that means "full in the bass" then yes it is, and just what my "light in the bass" pink wobbler needed!  |
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Post by MartinT on Jun 29, 2014 19:46:08 GMT
Was it you who described the XX20ii as "dark" with reference to your Shelter 5000? If that means "full in the bass" then yes it is, and just what my "light in the bass" pink wobbler needed! Yes, it was me and I can see how the Dynavector is a perfect match with Lowthers. |
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Post by pinkie on Jul 1, 2014 8:42:18 GMT
Bother. Lowthers factory is in Norfolk, so my plans to "pop in" to sidcup after tennis have been thwarted. They are matching the unit from the serial number, and will have an exchange unit down in about a week. 50 hours use - manufactured 2008. There are some naughty fairy tale tellers out there. 8 ohm aluminium coils. Next thursday. Ho Hum Perhaps I'll play with that MC15FL this weekend instead  |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2014 8:50:20 GMT
Bother. Lowthers factory is in Norfolk, so my plans to "pop in" to sidcup after tennis have been thwarted. They are matching the unit from the serial number, and will have an exchange unit down in about a week. 50 hours use - manufactured 2008. There are some naughty fairy tale tellers out there. 8 ohm aluminium coils. Next thursday. Ho Hum Perhaps I'll play with that MC15FL this weekend instead Who would have believed such a thing  |
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Post by pinkie on Jul 1, 2014 9:01:09 GMT
Update - lady at lowther speak also with forked tongue. Suddenly I can pick the driver up tomorrow. Course, now I am going to have a new and an old, so if I even think I like em enough to keep, I'm going to have to exchange the other one and run em both in. Please , please remind me next time not to get started on these things... (missing slap-head "doh" smilie)
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Post by MartinT on Jul 1, 2014 9:31:15 GMT
(missing slap-head "doh" smilie)  |
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Post by pinkie on Jul 1, 2014 9:55:18 GMT
(missing slap-head "doh" smilie) Has that always been there?  If not - ta muchly!  |
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(itchy beard smilie needed!)
If not - ta muchly! 