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Post by pinkie on Jul 2, 2014 18:15:58 GMT
You know you want the ESL63's, so get on with it. Fix the Lowthers, and flog them on. If Mrs Pinky does not like them, they won't be staying. He doesn't really, he just thinks he does. 57s rule OK? I know its oft said. AK would agree. I think Owen does too. I agree if you put 2 of them on top of each other. But although the 63's can be a bit "farty" sometimes they image with Sooooo much more depth, and are a bit less cold and clinical. Sue was thoroughly underwhelmed with the 57s and absolutely gob-smacked by the 63's. Guess I'll buy some 63's and borrow the 57's and try to make up my mucking find before emigrating. As I may have mentioned before, the current room isn't ideal for either - even with domestic consent granted to give it a go. I hate the idea of transporting the things too. My bottles gone. I used to chuck them in the back of an estate car and never give it a 2nd thought. (Mind I used to transport the TT around with the counterweight on the arm. To see the look of AK's face when I did that with the FXR you'd have thought I was Rolf Harris. It's like bloody child car seats. My parents transported me in a carry cot behind the back seat in a VW beatle. Today...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2014 18:22:34 GMT
Do you really think he will have a choice? well he told me he is the master in his own household
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2014 18:32:31 GMT
When Mrs Pinkie is not at home (I reckon!).
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2014 18:56:58 GMT
He doesn't really, he just thinks he does. 57s rule OK? I know its oft said. AK would agree. I think Owen does too. I agree if you put 2 of them on top of each other. But although the 63's can be a bit "farty" sometimes they image with Sooooo much more depth, and are a bit less cold and clinical. Sue was thoroughly underwhelmed with the 57s and absolutely gob-smacked by the 63's. Guess I'll buy some 63's and borrow the 57's and try to make up my mucking find before emigrating. I wonder if the 57s were 100%!! I had mine rebuilt by OneThing before we came out and the difference was astonishing, just everything was better. I was made in 47, I just wish there was a decent rebuild service available, I could do with a few things being a bit crisper.
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Post by pinkie on Jul 4, 2014 8:03:26 GMT
I may bottle getting ESL's at this stage. There is only so much "I told you so" that a boy should be expected to endure in a life in HiFi, and there is a serious risk that they don't sufficiently outperform the Ventricals to justify the intrusion in a small living room. Or worse - that the Ventricals outperform them. In a decent size room, 6-8 feet off the rear wall, with a good 8-10ft to the listener, I would be pretty confident they would do something magic and special, and something the Ventricals could approximate but not match. In a small room, close to the rear walls, close to the listener - this could backfire!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2014 8:49:17 GMT
I may bottle getting ESL's at this stage. There is only so much "I told you so" that a boy should be expected to endure in a life in HiFi, and there is a serious risk that they don't sufficiently outperform the Ventricals to justify the intrusion in a small living room. Or worse - that the Ventricals outperform them. In a decent size room, 6-8 feet off the rear wall, with a good 8-10ft to the listener, I would be pretty confident they would do something magic and special, and something the Ventricals could approximate but not match. In a small room, close to the rear walls, close to the listener - this could backfire! If there is one thing I disagree about with 'common knowledge', its this thing about the Quads and space. I have used them in a cupboard where the back wall was about a foot away. I've used them in a hall where the wall was about 10 feet away. I use them now with the wall less than a metre away in an 5 metre x 4 metre room. Always put them as close to side walls as possible. ( I trust you notice the change from feet to metres there, this is, after all, our first house in France I have never yet felt that they were badly compromised by any of the varying positions. In the cupboard we were sitting near field and they sounded terrific. Much as I like these 'ere Teufels, which do 'hi-fi' like good'ns, they miss the magic by a small but significant amount. Long term, I wouldn't be happy with even that small shortfall.
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Post by pinkie on Jul 4, 2014 9:08:39 GMT
Now calm down dear (in best Michael Winner accent) Let me explain. This speaker business has been a bit of a saga - kicked off by Sue objecting to my "big ugly speakers". Having played with R900's LS50's and Lowther Fidelios they are now those "lovely little speakers" and she is an evangelist. If they went back into production, she is first pick for salesperson. She has learned (and with the cartridge) just how good my HiFi is. She knew it was better than her ex-husbands tower system, but through visits to Arthur and Owen, Sevenoaks Hifi (Dacs and headphones), Maidstone home media (cartridges and speakers) she has come to realise just how cherry-picked and special some bits are. Particularly the speakers. From my point of view, I realise I have moved from trying to replace or mend broken and flaky stuff (cartridge, then arm, then pre-amp, then power amp, and now bloody turntable) I have moved from that to pursuing a sort of Elysian fields fantasy to reproduce a sound. 2 sounds. One in my Dad's living room, when I bougt the reference system home for him and his mate to listen to their classical collection on, and one being the Sidcup factory system. I suspect that long standing champ of the ESL's that you are, you have never heard systems work like that. The Sidcup factory is the biggest challenge. I may stop short of 8 foot firedoors, and the 6 foot rat snake which used to bask on them, but we had stacked 57's in a room, which had carpets curtains and sofas, but was a light industrial unit with 10 foot high ceilings and probably a room 30ft by at least 20ft. Various sources. The imaging was jaw-dropping Even the system in Dad's living room (ESL63's Quad 405-2(mod), Pip2, PT Anni, Helius Orion, Technics U205 was jaw-dropping. The living room is about 15ft by 15ft, and on the wall opposite the sofa is an 8ft wide opening into a dining room. The speakers were just inside and in front of this. The Orchestra were playing on the patio - 20ft behind. Never mind the natural tones, crystal clarity and realism of the ESL's - its that "audio stunt" I realise I am trying to recreate. Is it an illusion? A romantic memory? I had convinced myself it was. Until we went up to Owens and heard it reproduced very nearly as well there (by a fairly modest CD player and Dac). So Sue has heard it too. And knows what I am trying to recreate. But you don't recreate it with the speakers close to a rear wall And when the speakers have to be close to a rear wall - the Ventricals excel Like I say - it could be a shot in the foot
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2014 9:37:38 GMT
I reckon it's the tint of your glasses - a little pink, or Rose as we would say in France. (And I am not surprised that the loaner Technics does not sound too good, it's still got the original feet and platter on it).
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2014 9:45:52 GMT
Well.....every room is different of course. The best I've heard them was in the music room I had in Suffolk. The barn to the right in the pic was the room. 16 metres x 6 metres with the ceiling going right up to the apex at about 5 metres. Sitting 10 metres away certainly gave a totally different 'view' of the music than sitting up close. I still found a single pair adequate though and they seemed to drive the room pretty well including fairly deep into the bass. OK, I'm slightly enthusiastic about the 57s but clearly they suit me and my expectations. One of my mates around the time I got the Quads had a full active Meridian system and he was blown away when he came round. Over the years I've listened to so many speakers that were obviously extremely good but somehow........ Anyway, as ever, its the room and the ears that count. I'll have Ronnie have a few words with your wife. When I suggested that my nephew was first in the queue for the 57's, she said he will have a long wait as, even if I go first, he will have to prise them out of her cold, locked mits
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Post by pinkie on Jul 4, 2014 10:17:21 GMT
I reckon it's the tint of your glasses - a little pink, or Rose as we would say in France. (And I am not surprised that the loaner Technics does not sound too good, it's still got the original feet and platter on it). But one hell of an arm. I have pictures of it with the Funk Strata platter on, but with that big brash lettering I just thought it looked too much like an advert, so went for one of the discreet ones
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Post by Barry on Jul 4, 2014 21:18:03 GMT
HHmm. Not sure you can ever tell that much about a speaker from a review, but they probably wouldn't have been on my shopping list, and they aren't an obvious esl clone. Whilst Gordon will point out that the esl57 is perfect in every respect and without flaw, conveying rich bass and exciting rhythm and pace, it's probably really first pick on the team sheet for qualities like delicate detail, uncoloured natural sound (particularly vocals). Exquisite for classical and jazz music, I have yet to see a metal band use them as stage monitors Horses for courses... Though not metal by any means, Mike Oldfield is rumoured to have approached Quad with the idea of using two 8 x 8 arrays of Quad 57 ESLs for his live gigs. 128 Quad 57s - that's a lot of dosh!
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Post by pinkie on Jul 5, 2014 8:58:35 GMT
128 Quads - that's a lot of surface area. You 57 boys are fanatical I am due to pick up the 63's on tuesday. By one of those bizarre coincidences I knew the vendor - The Listening Rooms - A PT dealer! I am greatly reassured they will be good 'uns, and £500 a great price. I'll bring Mr Jones 57's down for a head to head in September when I'm back from France. Gordon - did you ask if they needed servicing??? The owner is a hugely experienced professional audio engineer, who started playing with HiFi as a hobby about 50 years ago, with his twin brother who is chief designer for TAD. No - they don't need servicing! (It's his brothers I will be borrowing)
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2014 18:17:39 GMT
128 Quads - that's a lot of surface area. You 57 boys are fanatical I am due to pick up the 63's on tuesday. By one of those bizarre coincidences I knew the vendor - The Listening Rooms - A PT dealer! I am greatly reassured they will be good 'uns, and £500 a great price. I'll bring Mr Jones 57's down for a head to head in September when I'm back from France. Gordon - did you ask if they needed servicing??? The owner is a hugely experienced professional audio engineer, who started playing with HiFi as a hobby about 50 years ago, with his twin brother who is chief designer for TAD. No - they don't need servicing! (It's his brothers I will be borrowing) Oh well, just means your'e deaf then
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2014 18:30:52 GMT
128 Quads - that's a lot of surface area. You 57 boys are fanatical I am due to pick up the 63's on tuesday. By one of those bizarre coincidences I knew the vendor - The Listening Rooms - A PT dealer! I am greatly reassured they will be good 'uns, and £500 a great price. I'll bring Mr Jones 57's down for a head to head in September when I'm back from France. Gordon - did you ask if they needed servicing??? The owner is a hugely experienced professional audio engineer, who started playing with HiFi as a hobby about 50 years ago, with his twin brother who is chief designer for TAD. No - they don't need servicing! (It's his brothers I will be borrowing) Now you just need to make sure that the new house has space for them to work properly.
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Post by pinkie on Jul 9, 2014 10:39:42 GMT
Well, the bits arrived, the work is done, to the accompaniement of "your not keeping 3 bloody pairs of speakers you know" Captive nuts and M5 allen bolts, proper banana plugs on the connections to the drivers, working EX3's - no prizes for spotting the new one Oh OK - heres a close up to help you The new driver arrived with a sheet warning that it contained strong magnetic fields, was not to be handled by people fitted with pacemakers, to hoover the surrounding area before placing on a protective sheet (not the carpet) as the magnet sucks debris into the voice coils, and to hoover the grills before fitting and keep them fitted. Fortunately it is the only speaker I can think of that sounds better with the grills on It also warned that they needed to be switched on with the volume at zero for at least 5 minutes before playing music. All instructions duly followed. Erm - they're quite good. This may prove embarrassing later, since I have a pristine beautiful pair of ESL63's in the wing, and we like the bloody Ventricals. They are SOOOOO much better than the pile of poo I first listened to at Owens. I could live with these. I may not, when we start the head-to-heads, but I could. That glare, that "forwardness" of the Audio Nirvanas (even with proper terminals) has gone. So has the tubbiness. And although this is a word I loath when used by others, they are really fast. It makes you appreciate what the term means. Drums in particular have a real instrument feel. On simple program material (our reference track 1 - Katie Melua "Down and Out", but also Joan Armatrading "Love and Affection") they are holographic, and very rich and natural. I know Sue is going to fail them on the swirling brushes on the snare drum test, so they clearly miss that last shaving of treble detail, but the ride cymbal rings out true and clear. On more complicated stuff - it had to be "any colour you like" from DSOM - since that's what I first heard them playing 25++ years ago - they cope MUCH better than the Audio Nirvana version, but maybe get a big confused. Not bad at all though. Don't go running away with the idea that they are last nights Brazil team. These speakers would taking Germany all the way to 90 minutes. This could be embarrassing - since, although bigger than the Ventricals they are still fairly domestically acceptable compared with the ESL63's (which demand more floor than the Lowthers and Ventricals side by side). But these speakers now show how they can sell for around £5000 - and by a no-dealer network distribution method to boot!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2014 11:07:01 GMT
So, no bedrooms planned in the French house then??
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Post by pinkie on Jul 9, 2014 17:55:33 GMT
I'm not having bloody great horns in a bedroom. No. Surprising result. Mrs S approved the Lowthers for the first 3 records, and then , as predicted , they failed the snare drum brushes test (also the big arm sweep test - an apparant soundstage arcing over the speakers). She wants to put the Ventricals back in to prove to me they are better, but we are both impressed with these Lowthers now. She's gone out with her parents - I feel some 63's coming on...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2014 18:35:48 GMT
I'm not having bloody great horns in a bedroom.
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Post by pinkie on Jul 9, 2014 18:58:45 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2014 19:03:12 GMT
While the cats away
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