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Post by MartinT on Dec 11, 2023 9:22:56 GMT
This was bound to happen, and never underestimate the government's ability to recover taxes by some means or other. I still maintain that the infrastructure will not cope with the number of new electric cars coming onto the roads in future. Source: RAC
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Post by ajski2fly on Dec 11, 2023 13:46:16 GMT
This was bound to happen, and never underestimate the government's ability to recover taxes by some means or other. I still maintain that the infrastructure will not cope with the number of new electric cars coming onto the roads in future. Source: RAC Martin, It would be interesting to have the link to the above as I cannot find it on the RAC site, there is this however www.rac.co.uk/drive/news/electric-vehicles-news/cost-of-rapid-charging-an-electric-car-up-50-in-eight-months/It is possible to get 60-70p per kwh on Public Charging networks is you join for example Electroverse, Octopus subsidised EV network charging giving discounts(you do not have to be an Octopus customer). I think BP Pulse and Shell charging offer lower charging is you subscribe to them as well. Also there a 15 Tesla charging sites(supercharges) open to non Tesla cars with CCS charging ports, (this is 650 superchargers), the cost per Kwh varies depending on time of day at present between 25p to 48p per Kwh for a Tesla, a non-Tesla car will be charged around 10p more per Kwh. Below are screenshots of real charging figures for this month for my Tesla from the Tesla App. As you can see we charged at the Tesla Supercharger at Winchester on 9 Dec with 23kw to top up to 80%, at a cost of £8 or £0.3478 per Kwh which equates to £0.087/mile. The 37Kw charge at home last night was at Intelligent Octopus rates of £0.075/Kwh, the Tesla app will only take whole pence figure so is at 8p/Kwh shown. The small 4khw was between 23:30 and 24:00, the 37kWh between 24:00 and 05:30. The last screenshot is from the Teslafi App which connects directly to the Tesla and gets all the stats and recorded trip data from its computer, very clever, the trips shown are all the trips for Saturday and Sunday. We left home with the car having an 80% charge and it is now sat in the garage at 77% charge, 1% is 0.78kwh. So adding the mileage up for all the trips over the 2 days we did a total of 249.27 miles, and used 23kwh(Tesla supercharger) + 4Kwh(Octopus) + 37Kwh Octopus, a total of 64Kwh which gives a real world of 3.89miles/Kwh, which is not bad at all IMO considering we had the heating on all the time and half the journey was in appalling road conditions with heavy water on roads (driving on wet road increases rolling resistance and lowers fuel economy for all types of vehicles ICE or EV). So it actually cost us a £8(Tesla) + £1(Octopus) + £3(Octopus) = £12 or £0.04814 per mile. This equates to £1.92 for 40 miles which in a petrol car the does 40mpg would have cost around £6.81. So the EV was more than 1/3 cheaper! Even if you put the 23kwh up to a cost of £0.65/kwh for public charging (which is realistic at the moment) this would add £6.95 to the cost, which works out to a total of £18.95 or £0.076/mile or for 40 miles £3.04, still less that half the petrol costs. The reality is that most EVs will be charged at home overnight on cheaper electric, and that the majority of trips cars do on a daily basis are with a 50 mile range or less, so in reality very few trips will necessitate using public charging networks. Ahh I hear you say "What about all those people who do not have a driveways and cannot have their own charger?". There are big initiatives currently in progress in many cities and towns to roll out road side chargers in lampposts and pop up chargers, which enable EVs to plug up and charge, and do so overnight at cheap rates. This is exactly what has happened in Norway, it did not happen overnight but was a gradual transition as the take up of EVs grew.
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Post by MartinT on Dec 23, 2023 13:05:36 GMT
JayEmm offers a very balanced view, as always. EVs are a choice, and all users should enter into ownership with their eyes open.
He does, by the way, confirm the RAC's calculations above, although the cost of electric charging wildly varies whereas the cost of fuel, within tight limits, is more stable.
This ignores all the issues around grid capacity and number of charging stations.
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Post by ajski2fly on Dec 23, 2023 16:53:33 GMT
If you look on his Facebook page it is very obvious he is a complete an utter Petrolhead, so not surprising he is not much of an EV advocate.
Yes I do understand why people are reluctant to accept or move on to EVs, but progress is what is needed not stagnation, but I suppose if we are not around in 10-20 years time it won't matter to any of us anyway.
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Post by nicholas on Dec 23, 2023 17:24:53 GMT
If you look on his Facebook page it is very obvious he is a complete an utter Petrolhead, so not surprising he is not much of an EV advocate. Yes I do understand why people are reluctant to accept or move on to EVs, but progress is what is needed not stagnation, but I suppose if we are not around in 10-20 years time it won't matter to any of us anyway. I'm all in for clean energy transition but wouldn't it be a good idea to have infrastructure in place before turning off what works?
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Post by Slinger on Dec 23, 2023 18:44:02 GMT
If you look on his Facebook page it is very obvious he is a complete an utter Petrolhead, so not surprising he is not much of an EV advocate. Yes I do understand why people are reluctant to accept or move on to EVs, but progress is what is needed not stagnation, but I suppose if we are not around in 10-20 years time it won't matter to any of us anyway. I'm all in for clean energy transition but wouldn't it be a good idea to have infrastructure in place before turning off what works? Well, that's a bit bloody sensible. WTF are you doing saying stuff like that on a forum? You could completely derail a thread with talk like that.
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Post by HD Music & Test on Dec 23, 2023 20:11:42 GMT
I am going to say this again and I work on designing EV PDN's
The tech isn't ready yet in terms of true sustainability NEITHER is the national grid capable of handling the number of cars they are planning for it was a knee jerk reaction by the governments for the 2030 deadline.
If tyou suddenly just dropped ICE then a significant number of jobs would go directly and indirectly and NO governing body could cope with that. Let alone the infostructure
Alternatives have to be found no question but done in a balanced way so that the transition is acceptable to ALL parties.
I have many friends with EV's and some have had them a least 2 years.
I have app it tells me where I can charge, yes it does BUT it doesn't tell you how many are waiting to charge or how many charges are actually working?
Genuine milage ability of these vehicles, at least 3 regular travellers drop in to London to work and see us, so we have worked out a route for them they travel from Gloucestershire ID3 VW its 132 miles door to door he really has to top up the charge here before going onto to London, now they stop at Little Chalfont overland tube and charge at the VW garage there then catch the tube in to Baker street simple and easy BUT they will have to charge to get home.
If its raining and the heater wiper lights are on then maybe 185-200 max if they drive like an old fart possibly 240-250 how many Telsa's doing 62mph in lane 3 have I passed this week lol
Cost of servicing? shouldn't be that much just ask Brookie lol, seriously my neighbour has the E-pace jag 21 plate, we have a chat about car stuff a lot he service and repair bills are way more than the diesel he had before.
The cost of EV's is coming down I drove a MG fancy thingy last week yest it can achieve sub light speed and is well built but its anadyne like listening to most so-called high end hifi, plus is Chinese.
Saying that an electric van with the right load and lease deal is 575 PW +vat I don't pay monthly for any vehicle let along that amount lol
Yes we have to start saving the environment no question at all and it has to start last week, but being a Guardian reader doesn't help matters, JCB have been fitting their own hydrogen engines for the last 12 months fully legal, yes they turn over 2B£ but they are not GM/Ford/Honda/Nissan/Etc which have multiple billions.
This is about making a transition for all workers/environmentalist/governing bodies and the general public to work it out correctly
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Post by speedysteve on Dec 23, 2023 20:59:18 GMT
To quote Dr. Malcolm - "Life finds a way"
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Post by mikeyb on Dec 23, 2023 22:36:59 GMT
I can see the terraced houses with 100s of cables lying across the pavements or worse the local toerags going around unplugging all these new lamppost ones, never going to work.
EVs are about as practical as a chocolate fireguard, ordinary working people can’t afford them and even if they could they just aren’t good enough yet, and the ones that are are out of reach of Joe Public.
Yes we need to do something to stop being reliant on fossil fuels but EVs ain’t it.
What will we do with all the 5/7 year old used up ones that will no doubt require battery replacement at a cost if several 1000£s?
Would you buy a 5 or 6 year old EV? I certainly wouldn’t.
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Post by ajski2fly on Dec 23, 2023 22:59:17 GMT
I am going to say this again and I work on designing EV PDN's The tech isn't ready yet in terms of true sustainability NEITHER is the national grid capable of handling the number of cars they are planning for it was a knee jerk reaction by the governments for the 2030 deadline. If tyou suddenly just dropped ICE then a significant number of jobs would go directly and indirectly and NO governing body could cope with that. Let alone the infostructure Alternatives have to be found no question but done in a balanced way so that the transition is acceptable to ALL parties. I have many friends with EV's and some have had them a least 2 years. I have app it tells me where I can charge, yes it does BUT it doesn't tell you how many are waiting to charge or how many charges are actually working? Genuine milage ability of these vehicles, at least 3 regular travellers drop in to London to work and see us, so we have worked out a route for them they travel from Gloucestershire ID3 VW its 132 miles door to door he really has to top up the charge here before going onto to London, now they stop at Little Chalfont overland tube and charge at the VW garage there then catch the tube in to Baker street simple and easy BUT they will have to charge to get home. If its raining and the heater wiper lights are on then maybe 185-200 max if they drive like an old fart possibly 240-250 how many Telsa's doing 62mph in lane 3 have I passed this week lol Cost of servicing? shouldn't be that much just ask Brookie lol, seriously my neighbour has the E-pace jag 21 plate, we have a chat about car stuff a lot he service and repair bills are way more than the diesel he had before. The cost of EV's is coming down I drove a MG fancy thingy last week yest it can achieve sub light speed and is well built but its anadyne like listening to most so-called high end hifi, plus is Chinese. Saying that an electric van with the right load and lease deal is 575 PW +vat I don't pay monthly for any vehicle let along that amount lol Yes we have to start saving the environment no question at all and it has to start last week, but being a Guardian reader doesn't help matters, JCB have been fitting their own hydrogen engines for the last 12 months fully legal, yes they turn over 2B£ but they are not GM/Ford/Honda/Nissan/Etc which have multiple billions. This is about making a transition for all workers/environmentalist/governing bodies and the general public to work it out correctly There will be a transition, you will still be able to buy an ICE vehicle just not a new one after 2030 as currently legislated. Even the motor manufacturers argued recently that there should not be a relaxation on moving to EVs as indecision would impact their investment and planning. ICE cars will be replaced and new jobs in EV manufacturing and supporting infrastructure will replace them. You don't say which VW ID3 your friend has, there are 3 battery size models going back 3 years, if it is the 44Kwh one it will only have a range of around 176 miles max, the next is about 58Kw so 2560kw max and 77kwh is 347 kwh. So if they are doing 132 miles and charging both directions then sounds like they should have purchased one with a bigger battery if they intended to do longer journeys regularly. As for your Telsa comments I have Model 3 with 78kwh battery. 2 weekends ago we drove to Hampshire from Devon in the appalling wet storm conditions in the very early morning, with lights, wipers and heater on all the way, outside temp was around 5c. The trip was full 114miles to our friends, we left with a range of 302 miles (90% battery) stopped at Winchester for a break having done 97 miles and had 150 mile range left, so we topped up with 23 kwh to 80% 252 mile range, went to our destination, did a further 45 miles locally, and then drove home the next day(110 miles)! By the way we drove home on the A31, M3, M27 and A35 at the speed limits whenever we could, the trip home took 2h 10mins. I have yet to go to a Tesla or public charger and there not be a charging bay available to use. Electric van leasing see www.selectcarleasing.co.uk/van-leasing/electric £277 to £480 per month and that's the first I looked at. Producing large quantities of hydrogen does not work unless it is produced from GREEN produced energy, in other words not from gas, coal or burning wood pellets. Producing hydrogen takes large amounts of energy to do so. I do not read newspapers at all, generally full of lies or slanted half truths with own agendas, and deeply depressing.
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Post by MikeMusic on Dec 24, 2023 11:05:29 GMT
EV tech is still developing There will be dead ends, detours and course adjustments as it becomes mainstream and as common as petrol and diesel It is a least 2 separate areas Generating 'clean ' electricity Batteries
Even more important is humankind's mindset Huge amounts of change required
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Post by ajski2fly on Jan 3, 2024 11:30:06 GMT
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Post by ajski2fly on Mar 15, 2024 12:48:33 GMT
Thought some of you might find the funny side of this posted on Tesla club site. www.facebook.com/groups/teslauk/permalink/3769949813252453/?mibextid=rS40aB7S9Ucbxw6v"We are considering switching from an electric car to petrol or diesel. I have some questions to see if it really suits me and my family and hope someone knowledgeable can help? 1. I have heard that a petrol car cannot be refueled at home but I have to go to a special place for this? How often do I have to fill up, is it several times a year? Will there be options for refueling at home? We are used to the car being filled up every morning, as sort of by itself. 2. Are there many parts that need to be replaced? The seller said something about oil and filter change, gearbox, timing belt and other service. Do you see how many percent degradation you have on the wearing parts or will they break suddenly? 3. Do I often have to brake with the brake pedal, or can I accelerate and brake with the same pedal as in my current car? Do I get gas back into the tank when I brake or go downhill? 4. Do all petrol and diesel cars have much slower acceleration? I test drove one yesterday and it felt like it took a very long time from when I stepped on the gas pedal until it reacted. Maybe there was something wrong with that particular car? 5. We now pay $0.02/mile but with the petrol it will be about $0.13, even if the new car is cheaper to buy it will very soon cost more. We drive 15,000 miles per year. We hope that more people will use petrol so that the prices will go down... is there such a trend? 6. I have understood that petrol and diesel consist largely of oil. Is it true that the extraction of oil is associated with global environmental problems and widespread wars with absolutely terrible consequences for people around the world, including several world wars and trouble in the last 100 years in which tens of millions of people have died? Is there any solution to that in sight, we don't want to contribute to such crap, do we? 7. My son also heard that petrol cars emit fumes and toxic gases. I’ve read about air pollution and its impact on respiratory health. Are we contributing to that by switching to a petrol or diesel car? Will these pose risks to our health and the environment? ... have more questions but these are the ones I came up with now. Thanks for all the help! "
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Post by MartinT on Mar 16, 2024 10:59:53 GMT
LOL, very amusing. They forgot a couple: 8. Will the petrol car make a better sound than a continuous hum, especially as it gets faster? Will it get my pulse up? 9. Will I gain better enjoyment from the knowledge of thousands of moving parts all working in perfect harmony, rather like a quality old clock? 10. Will it look better than every mouthless EV clone out there, all apparently made ugly to shout that they're an EV?
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Post by nicholas on Mar 16, 2024 13:21:06 GMT
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Post by HD Music & Test on Mar 16, 2024 13:25:58 GMT
I could say so much here, but I won't as Guardian readers are not really an entertaining bunch and honestly being at the sharpe end and numerous NDA's forbid me. However don't believe the BS from both sides
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Post by Mr Whippy on Apr 17, 2024 20:10:55 GMT
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Post by ajski2fly on Apr 19, 2024 6:51:54 GMT
Not an accurate or true representation of the facts. Firstly the interviewer makes quotes at the start which are old news and up to 2 years old so a slanted biased start. Secondly most EV batteries from major manufacturers are warranties for 6-8 years and up to 100k mile, Kia I think may be 10. There are several Teslas in the world, that which have been verified, whoch have done over 300k miles and are still going on the original battery. Hydrogen power in cars is smoke and mirrors, very costly and unless produced with green electric to split water it is a very dirty process. Bio/eco fuels are petro/chemical industry clinging on to gain maximum profit. Again a very dirty process and when burnt creates co2, what a joke. Toyota is pushing their hydrogen car in Aus, but then they have built a plant their making it from coal, a filthy process that has lots of nasty by products including methane, they then ship it to Japan. They did this to move their co2 production away. People need to report that facts not inaccurate stuff
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Post by MartinT on Apr 19, 2024 8:05:58 GMT
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Post by MikeMusic on Apr 19, 2024 9:25:45 GMT
The world is waking up, slowly, the tech is still very new. Efficiencies are coming We need them now Needs to be put on a war footing. Stop subsidising fossil fuels, swap them to alternatives be it electricity or other
We have one electric car in our road of 10 houses. 2, 3 and maybe 4 car families 'Sensible' cars vastly outnumbered by truck sized, guzzling monsters and very nice sporty motors, 20 mpg ?
Climate change is for others to work against, not in my back yard A comedian on Mock the week put it very well - as a joke
I've seen what's coming for the kids and its bad, fuck 'em
No one dares say that out loud but they carry on regardless. Same result
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