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Post by julesd68 on Jul 16, 2024 14:18:40 GMT
So you are saying that if I was shooting portraits with that 35mm lens the EVF would tell me when I had achieved manual focus on the eyes? That's amazing. Autofocus on eyes would also be incredibly useful to me. I’ve not used that lens but I’m sure you’ll get the green box for focus confirmation, whether eye detection works well enough you’d need to check. If you are _really_ picky you should understand that some folks find that Nikon eye detection tends to prioritise eyelashes. You need to be shooting wide open with a f1.2 lens for it to matter, though some pixel peep at 100% then complain… Thanks Clive, more very useful info for me. I will investigate further. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on pros and cons of Zii or iii vs the zf. No rush though!!
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Post by Slinger on Jul 16, 2024 14:46:40 GMT
I must have words, Jules as your post has just cost me £4.6K! . I found an A9III for sale on eBay that had been used for just 3 days for a specific shoot ( hugh speed photography) in April and was now being sold as the job would not be repeated. It had the extended grip and 3 spare batteries and so was a good buy. I have a load of full-frame Zeiss prime video lenses and a few Sony lenses that will fit although the main use with be for photomicrography as the EVF and Sony’s menu system drives me nuts (I have a couple of A7s and even the RX100 is a mystery to me even after owning most of the various generations of them!). So, Pete, exactly who is "hugh," and how fast is he?
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Post by petea on Jul 16, 2024 16:02:27 GMT
No idea, I’ve never seen him!
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Post by Clive on Jul 16, 2024 17:55:05 GMT
I’ve not used that lens but I’m sure you’ll get the green box for focus confirmation, whether eye detection works well enough you’d need to check. If you are _really_ picky you should understand that some folks find that Nikon eye detection tends to prioritise eyelashes. You need to be shooting wide open with a f1.2 lens for it to matter, though some pixel peep at 100% then complain… Thanks Clive, more very useful info for me. I will investigate further. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on pros and cons of Zii or iii vs the zf. No rush though!! Ok, I’ll keep this as brief as possible as, which isn’t easy. If you are the modern style of photographer who shoots birds-in-flight or action sports, all at 20 to 30 fps, blasting off 1,000 frames in a day then you want a 24MP Z6iii or 46MP Z8/Z9. If as I suspect, you’re closer to my more deliberate style of shooting then the higher end bodies could be overkill. I assume the Z6iii is as big as you’d want to go. The choice perhaps becomes Z6, Z6ii, Zf or Z6iii. The Z6 and Z6ii have very similar specs, the main difference being the ii has both CFexpress and SD cards. AF ability is very similar but is regarded as behind the current tech. AF accuracy is superb, it’s subject detection (SD) and tracking which is lacking, they are workable but not as good as with recent cameras. They also have EVF blackout or slideshow effects at high fps. These cameras use the Expeed 6 processor. The Zf and Z6iii use the much more capable Expeed 7 processor. The Zf in some respects is a Z6/Z6ii with the Expeed 7 processor….but of course it’s also a retro style body so a bit marmite. The Zf resolves the dated functionality that the Z6/Z6ii exhibit, SD and tracking are excellent, IBIS is 2 to 3 stops better, low light AF is better along with some other details. The Z6iii is in a modern ergonomic shape, it’s a downscaled Z8 in someways. It does what the Zf does plus higher fps, more buttons, possibly it can focus one stop darker than the Zf (ie pitch black). Zf uses SD cards and micro SD whereas Z6iii uses CFexpress and SD. There’s a hint that the Expeed 7 bodies have slightly more advance jpg processing. Overall IQ from the sensors is pretty much the same between all these cameras. The Z6iii is the best of the bunch but will you use the higher functionality? If so, try to wait 6 months for prices to drop. The Zf may be enough for you but is the retro style / ergonomics ok for you? The Z6/Z6ii make good economic sense, personally the lack of decent tracking is a downer but my Z7ii is the same and I manage. There’s much more to say but handling the bodies would help you answer some questions around ergonomics. When you’re next up seeing your mum we could meet so you could check out my Zf and Z7ii, the Z7ii differs from the Z6ii only in terms of the sensor.
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Post by julesd68 on Jul 16, 2024 21:39:41 GMT
Thanks for taking the time Clive, and as ever most informative.
Re the Ziii, it is certainly most likely not necessary for my very specific needs - portraits are becoming my main interest and otherwise it's just holiday shots.
I've been reading more about the eye AF and will find it very useful in becoming less constricted by the way I shoot and not keeping everything very static and controlled. But I won't bore y'all further about this.
I'm used to a Ziii style of Nikon but the aesthetic of the Zf is very appealing. Saying that the dials on the Zf seem to be geared towards manual use which isn't what I would need now. I just need to see which would allow me to spend more time being creative and less time stuck in menus etc I note that both cameras weigh approximately the same which slightly surprised me ...
It would be great to meet up and have a proper look at the cameras - I'll let you know when my next Mcr trip is!
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Post by Clive on Jul 17, 2024 8:06:15 GMT
Thanks for taking the time Clive, and as ever most informative.
Re the Ziii, it is certainly most likely not necessary for my very specific needs - portraits are becoming my main interest and otherwise it's just holiday shots.
I've been reading more about the eye AF and will find it very useful in becoming less constricted by the way I shoot and not keeping everything very static and controlled. But I won't bore y'all further about this.
I'm used to a Ziii style of Nikon but the aesthetic of the Zf is very appealing. Saying that the dials on the Zf seem to be geared towards manual use which isn't what I would need now. I just need to see which would allow me to spend more time being creative and less time stuck in menus etc I note that both cameras weigh approximately the same which slightly surprised me ...
It would be great to meet up and have a proper look at the cameras - I'll let you know when my next Mcr trip is!
Hi Jules, getting your hands on some Z cameras will be very useful for you. I’ll add some of my personal views which I’ll say again are based around a more deliberate way of shooting vs a lot of people today…one view is that opinions on camera forums (like the hifi ones) are from gear-heads who are obsessive. That no doubt includes myself… Firstly…moving to Nikon mirrorless involves rethinking focus modes, you need to try out new modes which work differently to DSLRs. I have retro and modern bodies, I switch between the two with no issues. The retro body loses a function button and the joystick but it gains dials for ISO, Shutter Speed and Exposure Comp. I did like the joystick anyway… The retro body can operated in the same manner as the modern body, it has 95% the same controls. With both bodies you’ll need to dip into the i-menu with its 12 user definable shortcuts. You also have MyMenu, which you’ll be familiar with. I mostly shoot Aperture Priority but I also use Manual and Shutter Priority. On the retro body I tend to use manual ISO as it’s so easy to adjust. Also the dedicated exposure comp dial is very convenient- but so is “easy compensation” on the modern body. I could use Manual mode more but I have the same control for much of my shooting by being in AP. The modern body has 3 user modes you can save and and recall. I found these useful on safari but otherwise I don’t use them. I wouldn’t want to choose between modern and retro, both work for me. It’s more about handling than the controls TBH. I also wouldn’t want to have to choose between 24MP and 46MP….hence I have Zf and Z7ii. Edit: I should have mentioned that the Zf b&w switch is unexpectedly very handy. It doesn’t do anything you can’t do in the i-menu but scrolling through picture controls is long-winded, the switch makes b&w so much more instantly accessible. Of course if you don’t shoot jpg it’s no use. I shoot RAW + JPG and mostly use the jpgs, resorting to RAW when I need more powerful editing, especially for better detail retrieval from shadows or changing White Balance. Edit 2: that Voightlander 35mm f2 APO lens I linked is being discontinued, not because it’s not good but to free up manufacturing capacity.
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Post by julesd68 on Jul 17, 2024 11:20:22 GMT
Yes I actually have a very deliberate way of shooting which I've done for years but hoping to loosen up a bit with one of these cameras.
I use exp comp a lot and so a dial would be lovely for that. Number of megapixels not an issue for me at the moment. Can't see anything that would be a deal breaker on either body right now. Retro appeals purely on aesthetic but one can't be guided purely by that.
Hmmm ... Really looking forward to getting my hands on these two!
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Post by Clive on Jul 21, 2024 11:08:58 GMT
I don't understand how this is better than what I have been doing with my Canon DSLRs and manual lenses for years. When I use an adapter with a focus confirm chip, the focus point lights up when correct focus is acquired. It will also beep if I want it to. (I don't want it to!) I don't need a box around the subject's eyes - I can see where they are. The SD seems to please or surprise people but I agree that you point the focus box where you want it. The benefit of mirrorless in the area is that the focus box can be placed anywhere in the EVF so there’s no need to focus and recompose which reduces accuracy. I want to give more complete information about how manual focusing works with Nikon MILCs. I’ve researched the details more and had a play with some of my manual lenses to check what really happens. Nikon DSLRs (possibly in common with Canon) show focus confirmation when focus is achieved with a manual (non-chipped/non-electronic) lens. This is driven by the PDAF sensors. Nikon in their wisdom decided to not show focus confirmation for non-chipped lenses with their mirrorless bodies. The assumption is that they wanted people to buy new lenses or at least reduce the functionality of competing lenses. There is an adapter that spoofs electrical signals such that focus confirmation works, though this adapter has its own issues. Chipped manual lenses such as those from Voigtlander are fully functional in terms of focus confirmation. The process for non-chipped lenses involves using the zoom function to visually ensure focus is accurate at your the focal point. Focus peaking is available too but it’s often not sufficiently accurate. For chipped lenses the focus box turns green so no zooming is required. For any manual lens with the four latest Expeed 7 based bodies you can if you wish select subject detection (people, animals, cars, planes), this can be applied to the whole sensor, a large part of it, or a small part of it - your choice. You then compose your picture, the camera detects eg an eye - you don’t need to point a focus box at the eye, the camera finds it for you and places a small box on the eye. With a non-chipped manual lens you then hit zoom, this takes you directly to the focus box, you set your focus and take the photo. With a chipped manual lens the small box over the eye turns green when you’ve achieved focus (no zooming required)….this is so very easy. The frustrating thing is that this could be done for non-chipped lenses but Nikon restricts it in firmware.
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Post by ChrisB on Jul 21, 2024 19:04:47 GMT
Thanks for clearing that up Clive. The greed displayed in that strategy is really disappointing. The type of person who likes to play with vintage manual lenses is not going to be doing that to save money on new Nikon ones.
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Post by julesd68 on Jul 24, 2024 23:49:14 GMT
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Post by MartinT on Jul 25, 2024 6:42:36 GMT
There's no doubt that smartphones are the multi-tool of the modern age. I admit that I don't carry my camera abroad any more, it's extra hassle when I travel light. I am so impressed with the camera in my Oppo that I fancy an upgrade to the X5 Pro with Hasselblad technology. Sorry to hijack the thread with phones but it is relevant as that is the way photography is moving for 'normal' people.
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Post by ChrisB on Jul 25, 2024 6:45:05 GMT
The piece suggests that the manufacturers might be about to enter a 'death spiral'. I would argue that this started some time ago and that their current pricing policies is strong evidence for this - they're chasing the same annual profit returns from an ever diminishing customer base. It's a self-fulfilling prophesy.
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Post by MartinT on Jul 25, 2024 6:54:10 GMT
Isn't that what Kodak did? Ignored the emerging digital market until very late? They had someone in their team pushing to launch a digital product so it's not as if they didn't have the chance to be leading rather than following.
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Post by Clive on Jul 25, 2024 7:30:47 GMT
I frequent a photography forum where the usual arguments ensue regarding things like retro styled cameras. The arguments centre around these cameras being niche products. At some point I usually remind people that all stand-alone cameras are now the niche products as almost everyone simply uses their phones.
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Post by ChrisB on Jul 25, 2024 7:33:37 GMT
Indeed. And there is a striking similarity in this, to the hi-fi industry!
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Post by julesd68 on Jul 25, 2024 14:00:26 GMT
There are some amazing Nikon DLSR discounts around right now. Nikon D780 Body amzn.eu/d/0h1AmHlR
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Post by Slinger on Jul 25, 2024 14:25:34 GMT
I used to jointly run a 3D art/modelling forum. Every different piece of software had its staunch adherents, and every piece of software was better than all of the others, and if that got boring there was always the MAC V Windoze wars. I say wars, but we had a brilliant team of mods and admins, and nothing was allowed to develop into any real nastiness, which is why I was a tad shocked when I found audio forums with the scent of blood almmost permanently ihanging n the air. This place, I have to say, is closest to my old art forum. I belong to a bass forum. There is a ban in place on the mention of " road worn" or "relic" instruments. Those that heve been made to look as if they've had the sh*t kicked out of them from new. It was before my time on the forum, but apparently the argument got so heated that a rule set in stone was required. Personally, if I buy a brand new instrument I want it to look like a brand new instrument, and why would I pay to have fake aging added. For those who don't know what I'm talking about, these are brand new guitars, straight out of the factory. The guitar on the right will cost you £5.5K+. The Strat on the left is a much more reasonable £1,649 in the UK. Some people love them, some (like me) cannot see the point in adding fake Mojo to a guitar, but whatever they think they do love to argue. There is also a third faction which simply says people should be able to buy whatever they want, but what do they know? My point is, wherever you get a forum that encompasses more than one *thing* you will have arguments, the only thing that differs is the degree.
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Post by petea on Jul 26, 2024 8:28:28 GMT
Isn't that what Kodak did? Ignored the emerging digital market until very late? They had someone in their team pushing to launch a digital product so it's not as if they didn't have the chance to be leading rather than following. The Kodak story is more nuanced and sad than that even. They pioneered the work on digital cameras and had products that could be (and later were) launched. However the CEO and board decided to suppress the technology to ‘defend’ the sale of film. And then someone else launched digital cameras and the rest is history. Greedy and stupid, not just stupid!
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Post by julesd68 on Aug 2, 2024 12:00:18 GMT
Anyone here like Kodak T-Max? Some very cheap deals around at present from what I can see.
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Post by ChrisB on Aug 2, 2024 12:52:42 GMT
T-Max is quite nice - I took advantage of some cheap priced short dated stock a while back and so I have quite a lot of it in 120 format. Some street portraits I shot with it, using an old Minolta Autocord TLR.
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