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Post by MartinT on Jul 16, 2020 5:06:48 GMT
Sure, if you have pics.
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Post by user211 on Jul 16, 2020 7:45:03 GMT
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Post by MartinT on Jul 16, 2020 7:50:51 GMT
I hadn't fully appreciated that they are new builds, not restorations. Did Graz acquire all rights to Apogee designs, then?
Fantastic to see these on sale, even if you need an ampzilla to drive them.
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Post by user211 on Jul 16, 2020 8:18:38 GMT
Yeah he's owned the brand name for many years.
He tried to sell me some Diva Encore A9s over the phone from Australia. I respectfully declined.
There are all sorts of modern Apogees (post the decline of the original brand) from simple restores to much higher specs than the originals.
Simple restores can be done at very reasonable prices.
At the end of the day it's really up to you what you want made. They are all custom builds really.
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Post by user211 on Aug 8, 2020 16:22:12 GMT
I probably should have bought this a long time ago but didn't know it existed. The book of Justus. About to be read by Justin. Makes natural sense:D It doesn't really focus on planar-magnetic drivers but rather ribbons, which is a bit disappointing. So Apogee bass panel type drivers don't get much of a look in. For those that don't know, a ribbon is clamped at the top and bottom only (Apogee MRT - mid range / treble ribbon) and an Apogee planar-magnetic bass driver around all sides.
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Post by user211 on Aug 8, 2020 16:27:35 GMT
The clamp upgrade has paid off. I had my family round this weekend, and we watched "The Dirt" on the 4K UST projector via Netflix - loud. How I know that's not purist audiophile, but as my brother said "that really does sound very good". And he was right. So essentially the speakers now sound better than they ever did by a good margin. I usually yawn a bit when I hear about upgrade XYZ improving people's systems as you never really know what the hell they are on about. You have to hear their system to know if it isn't bullshit. But whatever FWIW (not much LOL) according to me this is ace. So what facilitates the improved bass definition? Probably the mass of the clamps and the fact that the material itself is "deader" than wood. And you can hear that easily. There's also far less sign of reaching the limitations of the bass panel when the volume is cranked up. That said, there was an issue with the bonding of the aluminium to the Kapton. This was only really evident when playing certain material as it would excite this lack of bonding only when the amplitude at a certain frequency range became sufficient. Since we knew we had to replace the bass panels, I thought we had an opportunity to upgrade the bass panel clamps, and that is what initiated the investigation into using the material we did. So there are two potential issues with Apogee buzz. Rotting foam on the clamp surrounds (not an issue here), and also separation of the foil from the Kapton. Or mylar in other designs. I would strongly recommend anyone getting a refurbishment to use this clamp material. That said planars are a pain. Martin Logans (I went through multiple panel changes with mine) Apogees and others. They all need maintenance to keep them at top performance and always bear this in mind. If you have ears you will know when they start to drop in performance and just simple signal generator sweeps done slowly will easily isolate resonance faults with simple FR tests telling you how panel performance alters over time. Which happens in all panel designs using membranes I would bet. Just being honest, principally because it's true.
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Post by jandl100 on Aug 8, 2020 17:26:11 GMT
Yes, stats need regular maintenance, I used to make a pilgrimage to Quad at Huntingdon every year to replace hissy panels in my 63s. And Martin Logan cls2z needed a complete replacement panel every 10th year or so. Pain in the bum.
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Post by user211 on Aug 9, 2020 10:46:36 GMT
The longest ML panels ever lasted me was 7 years.
I raised a thread on it on the owners forum and how long they last seems to be total luck. Some fail really quickly within 2-3 years. Some claim as much as 20 but I figure they just don't know how bad they have become and if their panels were replaced they'd be almost in shock at the improvement.
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Post by tarzan on Aug 9, 2020 11:49:36 GMT
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Post by user211 on Aug 9, 2020 13:18:03 GMT
They are 4 pieces so about a mere eighth of a metric tonne each. Less maybe as that weight probably includes stands. Still once assembled they aren't going anywhere. The annoying thing is they will never be heard by anyone effectively but I am betting they sound off the charts good. For real cred I feel Graz should hit the tonne mark somewhere along the line;)
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Post by user211 on Aug 11, 2020 8:40:46 GMT
Got the test mic out yesterday and got amazed at just how much more of a challenge a larger room really is.
Placing the mic in various different positions resulted in big changes.
Interestingly it is most linear where I have been doing most of my listening - behind the sofa and record storage on an office chair.
Time for a crossover mod.
The mod is to undo some of the notch I applied to get the best out of them in my last room.
I also discovered that the HDMI switch I am using to feed the 4K UST projector with three inputs is intefering with the Lampizator, causing issues between 300 and 450 Hz i.e. an impure tone. This is bass panel AND MRT territory but the MRT when driven by itself exposes it.
We discovered this post bass ribbon replacement testing but didn't know why. It is only obvious when driving the MRT so we had thought the MRTs might be knackered. Using USB only it is as clean as could be throughout the entire FR as is the bass panel. In other words, the speaker itself is in fantastic shape better than ever before technically.
I have also managed to suss out the ethernet network cabling between the main house and the studio. That means I get a constant 15 Mbps which is good enough for YT at 1440 resolution. A Virgin SIM can do way more but it isn't reliable. Nor is a Three or indeed Vodafone SIM. They all drop out here. Damned crazy considering where the house is. I am not in the middle of nowhere!
I am now an expert CAT6 ethernet cable crimper. Will be doing quite a bit more soon. Initially with no experience it is harder than you might think.
Virgin and BT will be around but it may take 2 years. Everything is BT hardwired here but the cabinet is miles away and we are served by aluminium wiring as copper was too expensive when installed in the street in the 70s.
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Post by MartinT on Aug 11, 2020 8:48:40 GMT
I put my SPL meter on a short tripod exactly at my head/listening position. Otherwise, the measurements are pretty useless.
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Post by user211 on Aug 11, 2020 9:21:17 GMT
I put my SPL meter on a short tripod exactly at my head/listening position. Otherwise, the measurements are pretty useless. Yeah optimising a speaker for 1m is total bollocks. Futile really. It has to be done in room where yer head is for best results. Measure an Apogee at 1m and you will get total bollocks no matter what the room. Hi-Fi News did this with the Analysis Omega and got total bollocks. Doesn't work with planars especially.
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Post by MartinT on Aug 11, 2020 16:20:59 GMT
Using 1/3 octave pink noise tests help as you're not exciting a single room or speaker mode.
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Post by user211 on Aug 16, 2020 22:27:31 GMT
A YT video of a YT video.
Obv. it looks a lot better and sounds better in room but a bit of fun nonetheless. Some weird colour abberations going on and blurred vision due to older mid price phone issues and frame rate synchronisation or lack thereof no doubt.
Shot on a OnePlus 6 phone. It's mono.
It's really enjoyable in the flesh.
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Post by jandl100 on Aug 17, 2020 1:28:18 GMT
I do get a sense of some really good sound quality going on there. I can kind of imagine being in the room listening.
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Post by MartinT on Aug 17, 2020 6:41:47 GMT
Glad to see they're back up and working. Do you hear differences from before the restoration?
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Post by user211 on Aug 17, 2020 9:43:40 GMT
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Post by user211 on Aug 17, 2020 9:44:20 GMT
Glad to see they're back up and working. Do you hear differences from before the restoration? See post #126.
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Post by user211 on Aug 17, 2020 9:45:34 GMT
I do get a sense of some really good sound quality going on there. I can kind of imagine being in the room listening. Pop round when you can be arsed and see. You could pick up the lava stands too. For whatever they are worth now.
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