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Post by MikeMusic on Jan 28, 2019 11:54:45 GMT
Really.
Grounding Boxes will sooner or later become as common as what ? - say system racks or mains filters. Sorry to say probably later.
Essential for anyone who is serious about good sound from their system.
Pooh poohed by those with closed minds for a long while yet. In a world where "mains cables don't, can't make a difference" the Type 3 will hold sway for a long time. The open eared and open minded get a great sounding system.
I have now tried at least 4 or 5 different cables in the RTZ.
Getting over the initial scepticism of the idea of a grounding box (At all !) we have to get used to the idea that....
Shock, horror
Cables make a difference.
Quite a big one.
Speaking for Coherent RTZ Grounding Boxes. (May be true for all grounding boxes)
Started with RTZ and one C1 cable.
Good.
One at a time added 3 more. Sound quality up each time. Credulity stretched beyond sensible.
Another fact
More is better.
Mr. Careful with money here was so taken he placed an order right away. Couldn't wait for the box to come back.
With it came further revelations as C2 and CR cables were plugged in.
Step up each and every time.
Have to pinch myself to make sure this is not a ridiculous dream.
More cables. Last thing I want is more bloody cables. Oh, unless it means I have *that* improvement in sound (damn !)
Two in the power amp, seven, yes 7 in the CD/Pre/DAC. Every one improves sound quality. Fortunately I have that many sockets spare.
January 2019
Listening to test cables Tony gave me to try out.
They are better and worse.
Brain working out what is going on with extensive listening.
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Post by MartinT on Jan 28, 2019 12:56:17 GMT
SGS only have two types of cable, to my knowledge. The thicker, more expensive white version definitely sounds better when used on my preamp's spare output. I use a green standard one to a spare input and a green one from the other grounding box to the DAC. These have a smaller effect than the white one.  |
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Post by SteveC on Jan 28, 2019 13:17:35 GMT
Martin,
Am I right in thinking that SGS white cable has silver conductors and their green cable, copper?
Could be that the RF prefers the silver flow from component to grounding box, much as silver is superior to copper in conducting electricity!
That said, I still have difficulty getting my head around why this should affect sound quality, as the ground cables are not in the signal path!
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Post by MartinT on Jan 28, 2019 13:21:38 GMT
Yes, I believe so. RF behaves in strange ways compared with audio frequencies and I don't profess to understand why the cable makes such a noticeable difference.
The grounding boxes should be seen as a 'mini Earth'. They sink the RF noise away from the ground planes of the components. I guess mains earth is too noisy which is why the grounding boxes make the system background so much quieter. Just a thought experiment, but it makes sense to me.
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Post by SteveC on Jan 28, 2019 13:30:02 GMT
I understand the concept of the ground box and what it does, just not why different cables used to connect components to the box should have such a great impact on system sound quality!
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Post by MikeMusic on Jan 28, 2019 13:46:46 GMT
I have to have it explained to me v e r y s l o w l y and may still not understand
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Post by MikeMusic on Jan 28, 2019 14:52:27 GMT
Testing the different prototypes Tony popped in.
Dogs dinner mix of all types was the start
Fine. Baseline
Back to all my own original cables
Nicer sound, quieter, less bass, I assume more realistic to the original.
Swap to
Two unmarked prototypes
Louder sound, more bass, less satisfying sound that seemed to be missing
Swap to
Two shrink wrapped prototypes
Quieter sound, less bass, nicer sound seemingly complete. Wider soundstage than unmarked cables.
and back to the original
Too close to call !
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Post by MikeMusic on Feb 2, 2019 10:41:01 GMT
Two super duper BD cables plugged in today. At Tony's suggestion I swapped with the two in the Power Amp Sounds impressive. Later on I will try them in the CD/Pre where I thought they would be best Will be interesting. Eleven cables now plugged in to the RTZ 3. Making it look as tidy as I can it still looks like a wiring loom  Will have to take photos |
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Post by robin5 on Feb 3, 2019 11:51:50 GMT
Would these cables all be courtesy of Tony?
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Post by MikeMusic on Feb 3, 2019 11:54:03 GMT
Yes. All Tony cables.
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Post by SteveC on Feb 3, 2019 13:20:07 GMT
A big thanks to Tony of Coherent Systems for venturing out on our treacherous roads yesterday with his goodies-loaded white van!
After visiting Mike and emptying his wallet, he proceeded on to Alresford, deepest Hampshire, to demo his RTZ3 box and various grades of cables (after Mike had severely depleted his stock) and make a comparison with the loan Entreq Silver Tellus box and four Entreq Eartha Apollo (silver) cables that has resided in my system for the past couple of weeks.
Initially, we listened to the system with the Entreq components still connected (two XLR cables from the Silver Tellus box to the Vivaldi DAC analogue outputs, one RCA phono to the Vivaldi transport SPDIF output and one RCA phono to a vacant CJ GAT2 preamp input).
Three well-known tracks were used for reference (1. After the Goldrush, from Natalie Merchant live in concert. 2. Vaughan Williams Fantasia on a Theme by Thomas Tallis, a Nimbus recording by William Boughton/English String Orchestra. 3. The Blue - David Gilmour live in Gdansk).
The Enreq Silver Tellus and Apollo cables (£1750 + £540 per cable RRP) was then disconnected and we listened to the system again, concentrating on the Gilmour track.
This confirmed my evaluation over the course of the last fortnight, that I had struggled to hear an improvement in sound with the Enreq kit connected!
We both thought that the system was preferable without the Entreq.
Next up came the all-new silky-black Coherent RTZ3 box. 15Kgs on four Black Ravioli pads, nestling comfortably on one of the shelves of my rack, looking discrete and could even be mistaken for a power supply of some sort!
Using just the same David Gilmour track, Tony proceeded to connect one of his starter cables (£250 a pop) from the RTZ3 to the SPDIF output on the DAC.
Definitely an improvement in palpability, stereo image and reduced system noise floor!
Tony then added more cables, one at a time, until Transport, DAC, Upsampler and preamp were connected to the RTZ3.
I noticed an audible improvement each time a cable was added and the aspects of improvement that I mentioned, increased each time and also when the base model cables were swapped with Tony's CR range (£600 a pop) and finally when a BD cable (£900) was connected to the Vivaldi Transport SPDIF output!
At the end of our listening session (which began about midday and ended at 7pm) we returned to the Natalie Merchant track and wow! This was now sounding more vibrant, with deeper bass, clearer, more focused singing and lower noise - Very impressive for a live recording!
Tony then disconnected his cables, but I stopped him when he laid hands on the RTZ3 box, which I am keeping! Coherent CR grounding cables will follow in due course as soon as Tony has replenished his stock (I just hope he comes back to me without going via Mike, who is feverishly buying up Tony's cables as swiftly as he can make them!
Having heard the RTZ3 box (£2800) at Tony's about three weeks ago, I was impressed enough by what I had heard it do in his demo system to request a further home audition. I didn't expect Tony to give up his valuable time to visit me personally as I was quite prepared to collect the demo RTZ3 box and cables from Gerrards Cross.
However, Tony does provide valuable consultation and critical analysis of customers systems and this is all part of the Coherent package of ensuring which, if any RTZ box is right for you and which grade of Coherent cables will work best with your system.
My investigation of competing grounding boxes has proved to me that they work (some not as well as others) and that they are well-worth adding to one's system.
How do they work? I don't profess to know, nor do I crave an explanation or scientific measurements to support the manufacturers claims! I have used my own ears and what I have heard is a substantial improvement in sound quality and musical enjoyment which has persuaded me to part with my cash (as a pensioner on a fixed income, I will now be eating cat food for the rest of the winter)!
A solid "thumbs up" for Tony Sallis and his marvellous RTZ grounding box!
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Post by jandl100 on Feb 3, 2019 14:15:02 GMT
Whoosh! Hmm, interesting and very intriguing!! But looks like we're approaching and maybe breaching £five-figures for a top "Coherent Grounding System", what with multiple cables at £900 a pop.  Are you guys sure you couldn't spend the money better / differently on your systems? Outa my league - OK, I could afford it, but somehow with "mystery science" and with other shiny boxes out there that might interest me I don't feel I want to! |
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Post by SteveC on Feb 3, 2019 14:18:01 GMT
There we go! The Coherent Systems RTZ3 box, sitting alongside the motor control box for my turntable and looking for all the world like a power supply! Dark and brooding in it's appearance with a Kubrickesque monolithic presence to it, silent and discreet (apart from the chrome bolts which Mike doesn't like, but which I think complements the satin black finish, matching the existing system components). Don't ask me to show you the rear, which has nine binding post, accepting eighteen separate grounding leads, as it resembles a rats nest, adding to the existing high cable count for the dCS Vivaldi 4-box digital system!  fullsizeoutput_157b by Steve Coward, on Flickr |
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Post by SteveC on Feb 3, 2019 14:20:26 GMT
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Post by MikeMusic on Feb 3, 2019 14:37:29 GMT
You had the 3 in one I was introduced to gradually. Bad enough to have to understand a 'grounding box' improves sound quality on a hifi system. Multiple cables was the next point to grasp. The more the better - no surely not ? *Better* cables was the point at which you know you have lost your marbles |
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Post by SteveC on Feb 3, 2019 15:05:34 GMT
Whoosh! Hmm, interesting and very intriguing!! But looks like we're approaching and maybe breaching £five-figures for a top "Coherent Grounding System", what with multiple cables at £900 a pop. Are you guys sure you couldn't spend the money better / differently on your systems? Outa my league - OK, I could afford it, but somehow with "mystery science" and with other shiny boxes out there that might interest me I don't feel I want to! Jerry, Eye-wateringly expensive if you go full-out on the top cables! I'm pitching in with the reference grounding box and probably five of the CR3 cables to start with (£600 a pop and comparable to Entreq's Apollo range in price, but far exceeding them in performance). Tony introduced the BD cable (£900) into the mix to prove a point and this level would probably prove prohibitive, considering the number of unused inputs/outputs I have in my system! As to whether the money could be spent better/differently on my system? If I was to pick one system component to upgrade in the near future, it would probably be the power amp, which I have owned for nearly fifteen years from new and is my oldest system component. However, I feel that having maxed out the power conditioning, structural support and room treatment, employing system grounding is a valid and satisfying pursuit, albeit at substantial cost for the top-drawer products. I have no doubt that Tony's RTZ1 box (£800) and CR1 cables (£250 each) will wring benefits from systems where the owners do not wish to spend serious sums! My rationale is "You can't take it with you and as my Glaswegian friend Sam reminds me, There are no pockets in a shroud!" |
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Post by jandl100 on Feb 3, 2019 15:15:25 GMT
"My rationale is "You can't take it with you and as my Glaswegian friend Sam reminds me, There are no pockets in a shroud!" " Haha!! Absolutely right, Steve!
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Post by MartinT on Feb 3, 2019 16:11:45 GMT
Jerry, see my thread on the SGS boxes. They work very well and will not cost you a fortune.
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Post by SteveC on Feb 3, 2019 16:23:06 GMT
Jerry, see my thread on the SGS boxes. They work very well and will not cost you a fortune. Martin, If you fancy it, pop over to mine with your SGS boxes, while I still have the Entreq and we can compare designs and performance! A three-way shootout - Entreq vs Coherent RTZ vs SGS! |
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Post by MartinT on Feb 3, 2019 16:31:10 GMT
Not easy to do. My SGS boxes have a time delay in effect, probably due to the capacitor inside. It takes them an hour or two to settle after change.
I'm very happy with them but I don't want to shift them around.
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