Tobias
Rank: Quartet
Posts: 321
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Post by Tobias on Apr 3, 2024 13:33:10 GMT
I don´t agree, but that is fine. (I can still be wrong!) I would say that passive ethernet filtering is actually inherently superior, when done effectively. You just can´t completely remove electronic sourced noise with added electronics, in my mind. In the HiFi+ review (since you mentioned them) of the Muon filter they even say that they question the need for a switch and that they would go for the Muon first and then decide if you think you need to add a high-end switch in addition. Yes they did say that. And then they reviewed my switch afterwards and at the end of the year awards judged it superior. I don’t say that to dismiss the Muon Pro or a competitor, just to put the record straight. I’m very pleased that you’re very pleased with your system and the DIY tweak you’ve installed. I’m also very pleased with my own system. Let’s be happy for each other. :-) Yes, but the problem is that you question passive filtering, and start muddy the waters, as you did. I am sure your switches are amazing, i really am, but you are comparing a £2999 solution with a £150 solution. I am not saying that the DIY solution is as good as yours either. The only reason i brought the Muon up was because it proves that passive filtering (and shielding) can also get the job done, if done well. |
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Post by HD Music & Test on Apr 3, 2024 13:47:05 GMT
The Moun is very good as are their USB (I don't sell them) have tested these out, as well as the Taiko version and Silent Angel pro 8 all deliver positive results in varing degrees on the test set up. In a real world applications, it was more stark imho. Many switches use an off the shelf module with various psu configurations/ sheilding / clocking / grounding. You pick your flavour and work thast into your own system.
Luckily I have more insight than most, although my own test bed is a very different kettle of fish, so I have set up a couple of sensibly priced systems to deliver a close to real home environment set up. That is where things get very interesting.
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Post by NigelB on Apr 3, 2024 21:45:09 GMT
Yes they did say that. And then they reviewed my switch afterwards and at the end of the year awards judged it superior. I don’t say that to dismiss the Muon Pro or a competitor, just to put the record straight. I’m very pleased that you’re very pleased with your system and the DIY tweak you’ve installed. I’m also very pleased with my own system. Let’s be happy for each other. :-) Yes, but the problem is that you question passive filtering, and start muddy the waters, as you did. I am sure your switches are amazing, i really am, but you are comparing a £2999 solution with a £150 solution. I am not saying that the DIY solution is as good as yours either. The only reason i brought the Muon up was because it proves that passive filtering (and shielding) can also get the job done, if done well. When you say “passive filtering is inherently superior” and I question that, it’s not muddying the waters, it’s disagreeing! I guess at the end of the day we all need to make our own decisions about where to best invest whatever funds we have available in pursuit of the sound quality we seek. |
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Post by MartinT on Apr 4, 2024 4:59:26 GMT
The argument is rather similar to mains filters versus regenerators. For me, active regenerators are an inherent part of my system and I love what they do. I haven't heard a filter in my system that I prefer. Others disagree and swear by filters. They are all valid solutions for different systems and listeners.
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Tobias
Rank: Quartet
Posts: 321
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Post by Tobias on Apr 4, 2024 6:35:39 GMT
Yes, but the problem is that you question passive filtering, and start muddy the waters, as you did. I am sure your switches are amazing, i really am, but you are comparing a £2999 solution with a £150 solution. I am not saying that the DIY solution is as good as yours either. The only reason i brought the Muon up was because it proves that passive filtering (and shielding) can also get the job done, if done well. When you say “passive filtering is inherently superior” and I question that, it’s not muddying the waters, it’s disagreeing! I guess at the end of the day we all need to make our own decisions about where to best invest whatever funds we have available in pursuit of the sound quality we seek. I was more thinking about your earlier statement: --------------------------------------------------------- "You have to be really careful applying ferrites to ethernet cables as they carry much higher frequencies than SPDIF digital cables due to the nature of the ethernet packets/frames being transmitted. The same ferrites one might use on an SPDIF cable to mitigate high frequency EMI (usually called RFI) could actually target the very frequencies we want to transmit on an ethernet cable... Unless the recipe is very specific indeed about which type of ferrites to use, the sound might change but not necessarily for the better. Proceed with caution then. I know someone who experimented along these lines but abandoned the experimentation as he didn't like what he was hearing, with a variety of ferrites. A wifi extender to eliminate any noise up to that point plus something to kill the noise which the extender itself produces can work well, but that something is more likely to be a switch or filter or whatever than a homebrew ferritey cable thing." -------------------------------------------------------- By that comment it is easy to get the feeling that ferrits are harmful and that it is very hard to get it right even though i felt it was dead easy when following the linked suggestion my self. I shared links to a page where they are very specific about the exact recipe and try a lot of combinations trying to find the ultimate combination. They also share the measurements, which is important to iterate, and compare it with other solutions as well, using their ears. |
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Tobias
Rank: Quartet
Posts: 321
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Post by Tobias on Apr 4, 2024 6:55:23 GMT
The argument is rather similar to mains filters versus regenerators. For me, active regenerators are an inherent part of my system and I love what they do. I haven't heard a filter in my system that I prefer. Others disagree and swear by filters. They are all valid solutions for different systems and listeners. The difference when it comes to the digital domain is that the sound is not yet created at that point. It is just preparation for the DAC conversation step, where the noise factor matters. It is all about cleaning up the ethernet signal, in all the frequencies, so that the DAC can work to its fullest potential. I think it is important to de-mystify this so that people can take their own decisions based on understanding what is logically needed to clean up the signal. I agree that it can be done differently, and that there is not only one good solution, but I have noticed that you can get very far with very little outlay, at least. |
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Post by MartinT on Apr 4, 2024 7:39:35 GMT
Absolutely agree, Tobias, and I have been saying and doing the same thing. Take noise out of every stage before the DAC.
For me, a combination of active (EtherREGEN and clocks) and passive (ethernet filters, optical bridge, grounding boxes, power supplies, cables) are working very well together.
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Tobias
Rank: Quartet
Posts: 321
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Post by Tobias on Apr 4, 2024 7:50:31 GMT
Yes, and it might be much better than this suggested solution!
That is important to say since i have no idea how they compare.
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Post by MartinT on Apr 4, 2024 7:58:17 GMT
Comparison is very difficult between systems. A few of us hear each other's systems quite frequently and the feedback is very welcome to help us all along the right path. Two steps forward and one back is the usual progress.
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Fro
Rank: Quartet
Posts: 342
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Post by Fro on Apr 6, 2024 16:31:42 GMT
I'm using a combination of RevoPods and Symposium Reference Platforms under the MBL101E speakers. This is on my 3rd floor carpet/wood floor joist floor. (I have since moved the RevoPods, and screwed them into the speaker footer thread locations) ***Note - Also a lot easier to slide the Symposium platforms on the carpet, for micro speaker position adjustments!  |
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Post by brettj on Apr 9, 2024 7:42:25 GMT
When is a tweak not a tweak?
I landed a bargain today.
Bought an Innuos Phoenix USB Reclocker.
A tweak? An expensive one, but still a tweak.
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Post by MikeMusic on Apr 9, 2024 8:25:20 GMT
A bargain is a bargain ! The RRP looks a lot Black I assume ? Bound to sound better  |
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Post by brettj on Apr 9, 2024 8:43:08 GMT
No Mike.
This was not a bargain.
It was a steal!
And black.
Also, one less power supply required...
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Post by MikeMusic on Apr 9, 2024 9:46:47 GMT
Oh that is a bargain.
Great stuff
I always see both sides of the coin on internal or external PSUs
Internal - they got it right
External - allows you to tweak the performance a bit or a lot
Makes me larf when I think where I was with Naim all those years ago
The TAD D-1000 as a one box replaces Naim CD player, Pre, DAC all with separate PSUs, IE 6 boxes.
There might even be 2 PSUs for the very best for Naim Pre and Naim CD
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Post by brettj on Apr 9, 2024 10:38:07 GMT
Haven't had any time with Naim, luckily.
Now have to sell a cable to pay for the Phoenix.
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Post by MikeMusic on Apr 9, 2024 15:44:54 GMT
Ok in its place and has a huge semi captive market Sound quality beaten for less money 2nd hand buys better and you may well be able to get your money back Black too ! |
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Post by HD Music & Test on Apr 9, 2024 18:57:17 GMT
Tweak of the week so far, cable routing following by 3d prinitng unobtainium in now sensible quantities! It's Alive I say :-)
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Post by brettj on Apr 10, 2024 4:37:12 GMT
Installed the Asus RT RT-AX86U Pro a couple of weeks ago.
Faster, and better wifi coverage.
Installed the Furutech NCF FI-33 IEC inlet on my Puritan PSM156 today.
Had to cut the insert a little bigger.
Not my prettiest job, but is in and working.
Hifi Tuning Supreme 3 fuse installed in the FiiO PL50 LPS for my modem.
That was a little easier.
The Canare FP-C53A F-Type Connectors arrived. Took six weeks.
Will mount them on the new Canare L4.5CHD coax cable running from the wall to modem (recommended by Blue Jeans Cables).
Have an SR Orange fuse for the Innuos Phoenix USB Reclocker when that arrives.
And will order a HiFi Tuning Supreme 3 fuse to put in my Plixir Dual Elite LPS (running the router and network switch).
Got quotes to install the Blue Jeans Horizontal 6A in-wall ethernet cable to my system. Around £120.
Seems a standard price. Will need a week or three for that.
Stack Audio Auva 50 Isolators have been sent here, not delivered, and returned to the UK.
Gotta love NZ Post.
Josh has kindly sent another set.
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Post by MartinT on Apr 10, 2024 4:39:15 GMT
Are you listening between each upgrade, Brett?
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Post by brettj on Apr 10, 2024 8:29:31 GMT
I've been busy working unfortunately.
And had dismantled the PSM156 three weeks ago.
So, no listening at the moment.
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