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Post by julesd68 on Jun 1, 2018 12:47:43 GMT
Ditto, Jules  yes we need to set a date Martin! |
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Post by MikeMusic on Jun 1, 2018 13:31:29 GMT
Come and visit Jules See what you hear here Mike, you know I love your Isis cdp. It's superb. But I do think that I would be most likely to prefer a really high-end turntable set-up of my 'taste' in your system. The Technics certainly isn't on the same level as the Isis IMO. The Isis is better since you heard it last. Technics and Isis too close to call Both about 4 feet high  |
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Post by MartinT on Jun 1, 2018 13:48:04 GMT
Just as an example of how much care needs to be taken to get digital replay performing at its best, I have a Pi DigiOne board which re-clocks the outgoing data to very low jitter figures, and I have a DAC (the Caiman SEG) which re-clocks the incoming data. You would think, then, that the bit of S/PDIF cable in between would hardly influence the sound. Not so - Tony and I changed over from Belden to Coherent at one point during our testing and the change was quite audible.
Remarkable but the lesson for me is that EVERYTHING influences digital playback. Pretty much like analogue systems, then!
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Post by ant on Jun 1, 2018 16:05:39 GMT
My modded cd player can to a degree, my computer based music can't. Tbh it can be bloody awful.
Theres something like 7000 tracks on it, and to be honest i simply dont like it. and am not inclined to bother investing in it when I can just get a record out or get a cd.
It is no more convenient and has no tactile quality whatsoever.
The question is loaded, unless a person is happy with what they have, it is impossible to say wether digital can deliver music for them. If they are, have invested in it and have not invested on analogue then they will be biased that way. I have invested in analogue and not digital so i am biased the other way.
A good quality digital system compared with a crap turntable and phono stage and cart that is just there to play the odd record is not comparable
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Post by MartinT on Jun 1, 2018 16:13:22 GMT
My question should have been "Does digital deliver music for you" and the poll should have been better thought through.
For me, the answer is definitely 'yes'.
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Post by ant on Jun 1, 2018 16:20:42 GMT
Yes that question would have been better. for me it is no, with the caveat that there is no reason why it can't given the same level of care and attention that I have put into analogue.
The modded cd371 I have shows the occasional spark of it. The mac and old beresford tc7510 doesnt
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2018 16:55:02 GMT
Digital does music extremely well and its infectious
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Post by dsjr on Jun 2, 2018 10:36:52 GMT
I heard one of the first Sony CD players into the country Appalling noise. Horrid I listened to LPs and reel to reel. Many years later one of the guys on CIX was kindly giving away a NAD CD player for postage. Plugging it in at work where I listened while working it was fine. Comparing CD to Vinyl the vinyl always had it, but CD and laterly streaming caught up with accessories and mods So close now to the point where CDs and streaming win out as easier and quicker than vinyl. That is why I hardly ever listen oto LPs now I wonder what you'd think of the original Sony 101 CD payer now in your current stereo? I heard one not too long ago and its sins were of omission (slight lack of atmosphere in a good recording) rather than added fatigue or harshness... |
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Post by MikeMusic on Jun 2, 2018 11:40:51 GMT
Be interesting to hear it now
System it was plugged into before
Naim 32.5 / HiCap, 250 or 135s, Isobariks
Can't remember the mains arrangements
Against LP12 / Ittok and Karma
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Post by MartinT on Jun 2, 2018 11:58:23 GMT
I remember the Sony 101 being rather forward and harsh and the Philips CD100 being a little soft and lacking in detail. It was a choice between different failings and neither were capable of showing the CD format off to its advantage.
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Post by ChrisB on Jun 2, 2018 13:10:07 GMT
The thing is that the systems that we all heard those players in at the time were all optimised for vinyl playback (and possibly mostly of a Linn/Naim flavour). Were they being given a fair shake of the stick in light of what we hear now from digital?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2018 14:27:16 GMT
Just as an example of how much care needs to be taken to get digital replay performing at its best, I have a Pi DigiOne board which re-clocks the outgoing data to very low jitter figures, and I have a DAC (the Caiman SEG) which re-clocks the incoming data. You would think, then, that the bit of S/PDIF cable in between would hardly influence the sound. Not so - Tony and I changed over from Belden to Coherent at one point during our testing and the change was quite audible. Remarkable but the lesson for me is that EVERYTHING influences digital playback. Pretty much like analogue systems, then! Yes I tried out one of the Coherent digital cables between my CXC and Caiman SEG and it was a significant jump up in ability and quality. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2018 14:28:50 GMT
The thing is that the systems that we all heard those players in at the time were all optimised for vinyl playback (and possibly mostly of a Linn/Naim flavour). Were they being given a fair shake of the stick in light of what we hear now from digital? I recon you’re right. One of the original systems in a more modern system might surprise. |
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Post by dsjr on Jun 2, 2018 14:50:04 GMT
Amazing how old memories can alter one's current perceptions.. I remember first hearing the Philips CD players at our SW16 store and into top Linn and Naim gear similar to the system MikeM listed, they were painful. The Sony was better but not by much. Turned out the 'Briks of that era were too brightly lit, favouring the fat bass and velvet highs of an LP12/Ittok/karma of the time - this well before the glued sub chassis and later Cirkus/plinth updates which transformed the bass.
My next serious listen was at reviewer Jimmy H's place. The Philips giving me a headache. The original Meridian M-CD was far better but still niggled me but the MCD-Pro was very much better with calmer highs and better bass - I bought one of these after hearing the top loading Micro Mega machine, the surprisingly good B&O CD-X and Mission DAD7000 at home.
By this time, Sony had moved on and the 502ES and 505ES were current. I found them slightly 'whiter than white' sometimes when heard with Jimmy's DNM gear (I forget which speakers he had by this time, it could have been modified Arcam 2's before the Impulse speakers came along), but easily listenable. The first two-box Sony at work was good into Naim by then, but I think the 72 preamp had come along with the better output card filters. the Naim variable gain boards were ghastly sounding and slugged the highs badly!
And so it went on. the next time I heard a CDP101 was in the very late 80's and I was surprised how much 'better' it sounded with the non Naim gear we were using...
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Post by MartinT on Jun 2, 2018 16:10:30 GMT
The thing is that the systems that we all heard those players in at the time were all optimised for vinyl playback (and possibly mostly of a Linn/Naim flavour). Were they being given a fair shake of the stick in light of what we hear now from digital? No, definitely not. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2018 16:31:40 GMT
I still prefer vinyl if and when I compare but I can and do still enjoy CD. Lots of CD players I just don't like bit there are lots of decks armas and carts I dislike too. There will be players that are even better than I have had too, so no need to stay analogue only for me. CDs are so plentiful, convenient and cheap too.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2018 17:29:57 GMT
I didn't vote because I actually agree to some extent with all 3. Digital can sound great, but whenever I compare, vinyl sounds better. It's not significant enough for me to
Ick vinyl over CD though so it doesn't really matter to me which I use.
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Post by John on Jun 2, 2018 17:42:22 GMT
I had an great afternoon with Martin. We pushed digital to new heights both of us did not know was possible. Stan PSU really is a big step over battery power.
The sense of musical flow, vibrancy and micro dynamics was enthralling and a bit scary on Winter from the four seasons
Thanks Martin for a great afternoon
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Post by MartinT on Jun 2, 2018 18:13:20 GMT
We certainly learned a lot this afternoon, John.
For everyone else, we were listening to solely Spotify hi-bitrate using Stan's supercap PSU and my modified Pi & SEG. We played a variety of music and asked ourselves the very topic of this thread: is this musical? The answer was an unequivocal 'yes', something we would not have believed just a year ago.
Not just digital format, but a compressed digital stream over the Internet. It's remarkable and we just wanted to play more and discuss the music. Just as it should be, of course.
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Post by Stratmangler on Jun 2, 2018 18:32:56 GMT
we were listening to solely Spotify hi-bitrate It doesn't exist!
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