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Post by dsjr on Dec 19, 2017 9:48:02 GMT
LS3/5A's?
Sorry. Can't stand the effers......
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2017 13:58:56 GMT
LS3/5A's? Sorry. Can't stand the effers...... I like some BBC designs and I just have a yen to play with a pair of these again. There are some other bookshelf/stand mounters I want to have a play with too. Sometimes I don't want to put the big Tannoys on especially if I want the music in the background while i work as the Tannoys are very involving. |
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Post by dsjr on Dec 19, 2017 16:02:15 GMT
LS3/5A's? Sorry. Can't stand the effers...... I like some BBC designs and I just have a yen to play with a pair of these again. There are some other bookshelf/stand mounters I want to have a play with too. Sometimes I don't want to put the big Tannoys on especially if I want the music in the background while i work as the Tannoys are very involving. I apologise if I came over a bit 'off.'
I haven't the spare dosh, especially at this time of year, but two online pals have raved to me about the Q Acoustics 2010i's for £69. They're probably not that great, but modern boxes like this have a heck of a lot of distilled thought put into them and in the case of these, better cabs than their predecessors. I remember hearing a friend's Diamond 7.2's not too long ago (he bought them for a tenner!!!) and was stunned how like the Harbeth P3's they seemed to sound (maybe that's not a recommendation for many here  )
Anyway, forgive me please and do please share your gear and music adventures if you have the time.
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Post by MartinT on Dec 19, 2017 17:20:24 GMT
I remember hearing a friend's Diamond 7.2's not too long ago (he bought them for a tenner!!!) and was stunned how like the Harbeth P3's they seemed to sound (maybe that's not a recommendation for many here) I'm really impressed with the Wharfedale Diamond 9.1s that I've just set up for our sitting room system. They are reasonably detailed, throw a good soundstage, pretty neutral and their faults are mostly ones of omission. For TV sound and the odd CD, they do a splendid job. Having a Caiman-II perform the D/A conversion helps a lot. I far prefer the LS3/5a take on sound balance over the Linn Kan variety, given that they are similar sized boxes. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2017 19:54:05 GMT
I like some BBC designs and I just have a yen to play with a pair of these again. There are some other bookshelf/stand mounters I want to have a play with too. Sometimes I don't want to put the big Tannoys on especially if I want the music in the background while i work as the Tannoys are very involving. I apologise if I came over a bit 'off.'
I haven't the spare dosh, especially at this time of year, but two online pals have raved to me about the Q Acoustics 2010i's for £69. They're probably not that great, but modern boxes like this have a heck of a lot of distilled thought put into them and in the case of these, better cabs than their predecessors. I remember hearing a friend's Diamond 7.2's not too long ago (he bought them for a tenner!!!) and was stunned how like the Harbeth P3's they seemed to sound (maybe that's not a recommendation for many here )
Anyway, forgive me please and do please share your gear and music adventures if you have the time.
No need to apologise, De gustibus non disputandum est, (In matters of taste, there can be no disputes). Wharfedale Diamonds I like and after I have a play with the LS3/5a's I may see if I can source some. The other speaker from back in the day I would like to find id the Dean ALTO |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2017 19:55:41 GMT
I remember hearing a friend's Diamond 7.2's not too long ago (he bought them for a tenner!!!) and was stunned how like the Harbeth P3's they seemed to sound (maybe that's not a recommendation for many here) I'm really impressed with the Wharfedale Diamond 9.1s that I've just set up for our sitting room system. They are reasonably detailed, throw a good soundstage, pretty neutral and their faults are mostly ones of omission. For TV sound and the odd CD, they do a splendid job. Having a Caiman-II perform the D/A conversion helps a lot. I far prefer the LS3/5a take on sound balance over the Linn Kan variety, given that they are similar sized boxes. TBH I have never heard a Linn speaker, turntable or indeed product that I liked. Great marketeers though. |
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Post by dsjr on Dec 20, 2017 0:15:03 GMT
Dean Alto's were a Martin Colloms design I believe - "Midrange colouration? Oh that's alright, bump up the tweeter 5db to mask it and everyone will say it's more detailed..." When new at any rate, the tweeter could take your fillings out, but I've learned to my cost that after nearly forty years, anything can happen |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2017 0:24:34 GMT
Dave and I really are like chalk and cheese when it comes to our likes. Needless to say I LOVE Dean Altos. I've had a few pairs and they have always brought a smile to my face. They kinda remind me of a baby Snell K. I think the tweeter in particular is one of the cleanest I've heard. They do seem to like an amp with a bit of weight and life though.
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Post by dsjr on Dec 20, 2017 0:47:15 GMT
The tweeter's 'clean' because there's probably too much of it (it was also measured so when new)? I remember Dean was an affable young man when he brought them round. Still today, they may well sound different.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2017 1:52:00 GMT
Dean Alto's were a Martin Colloms design I believe - "Midrange colouration? Oh that's alright, bump up the tweeter 5db to mask it and everyone will say it's more detailed..." When new at any rate, the tweeter could take your fillings out, but I've learned to my cost that after nearly forty years, anything can happen Why do you think they were a Colloms design? Brad Lowsher, as in Bradley Dean Lowsher, told be he designed them himself. Just after I moved back from the USA & before I became technical manager of Lion House in Tottenham Court Road, I worked at Darby’s a HiFi store in St Albans. As you say Brad was a nice young man and I sold loads of Altos and his Mini Monitors. I did talk to him about designing a set of floorstanders for him, but I got the Lion House job and the company seemed to vanish. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2017 2:01:13 GMT
Dave and I really are like chalk and cheese when it comes to our likes. Needless to say I LOVE Dean Altos. I've had a few pairs and they have always brought a smile to my face. They kinda remind me of a baby Snell K. I think the tweeter in particular is one of the cleanest I've heard. They do seem to like an amp with a bit of weight and life though. I like the Altos cos they really bop, and I never found them overly coloured. I want to drive the second speakers with the P 140s in monobloc mode, should be enough welly. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2017 4:18:25 GMT
The tweeter's 'clean' because there's probably too much of it (it was also measured so when new)? I remember Dean was an affable young man when he brought them round. Still today, they may well sound different. Loudspeakers i could not listen to 30 years ago i could now. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2017 8:46:23 GMT
The tweeter's 'clean' because there's probably too much of it (it was also measured so when new)? I remember Dean was an affable young man when he brought them round. Still today, they may well sound different. Dave, you still appear try and claim to claim "truth" for your ears over others. I've taken you to task for this before and will always do so. I almost always disagree with your findings and opinions but I never claim I'm right: Just that we differ. It's a much better world when we can all have different tastes and just be happy for the person who's found a different path. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2017 8:56:43 GMT
Dave and I really are like chalk and cheese when it comes to our likes. Needless to say I LOVE Dean Altos. I've had a few pairs and they have always brought a smile to my face. They kinda remind me of a baby Snell K. I think the tweeter in particular is one of the cleanest I've heard. They do seem to like an amp with a bit of weight and life though. I like the Altos cos they really bop, and I never found them overly coloured. I want to drive the second speakers with the P 140s in monobloc mode, should be enough welly. I like the way they can start and stop so effortlessly. I also like the fact that they don't look anything "special". I was put off trying them for years because one mag almost dismissed them as a speaker that appeared to be poor VFM against the competition. I only struggled to drive the Altos with an AP10P, which surprised me because it drove my low impedance and inefficient Spicas quite well. I guess that's the problem with paper specs. Our individual "reality" often differs. |
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Post by dsjr on Dec 20, 2017 9:37:39 GMT
The tweeter's 'clean' because there's probably too much of it (it was also measured so when new)? I remember Dean was an affable young man when he brought them round. Still today, they may well sound different. Dave, you still appear try and claim to claim "truth" for your ears over others. I've taken you to task for this before and will always do so. I almost always disagree with your findings and opinions but I never claim I'm right: Just that we differ. It's a much better world when we can all have different tastes and just be happy for the person who's found a different path. I'm not claiming anything but do have documented evidence to support what I heard 'back then' but I did say that speakers can change over time (they do - period!) and my memory of Colloms being involved was I'm sure from 'Dean' himself. I'm truly sorry, but I did get to hear all sorts in the course of my career and being my Aspergic life obsession, these memories tend to stick fast I'm afraid...
As for my own speaker tastes and opinions I'm hardly one to talk now, am I. I have two pairs of 'BBC Boomers' sulking in storage to shift eventually and a now tatty third pair based on late 60's BBC principles which don't boom and sound rather the opposite (I think the later BC2/SA2 drivers went as service replacements for a BBC model for a while). I hanker after some later JBL three ways after a recent 'show' experience and you can't get much more different than that, although the number of variants on the theme defeats me right now. I can't live with Omni's (I tried and didn't favour the listening experience) although having said that, my wife found some pics dated August 1984 when I unboxed my second pair of Isobariks in the shop - a walnut pair - and these were the best of the three pairs I consecutively owned then. I looked at how proud I was being pictured next to them and the reminiscing (and cringing too) started...
Anyway, apologies again and sorry for seeming to take over the thread with over-forceful views...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2017 13:54:58 GMT
No offence taken, Dave. I actually think it's both funny and marvellous that we hate the things each other loves and vice versa. It is a perfect illustration of why you can only really trust your own experience. I'll always be sure to gently remind you or anyone if I feel they are claiming any universal truths, but I will always try to do it in good spirit. I'm not a real believer in forming causal links between measurements and perceived performance, because there are so many other factors. I'm also not a devotee of a flat frequency response as a major determinant because it is dependent on matching components, cables, in-room effects and individual hearing/perception. So many other factors too, such as timing, separation and harmony etc. Some facets that are important to me may be well down your list of priorities and vice-versa. The great thing is, we are both right! Lord knows how we have both liked NVA. I reckon it must be the only thing we have ever agreed on. Must be special, eh Happy Christmas! |
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Post by dsjr on Dec 20, 2017 15:03:24 GMT
A tale I'm trying to learn from. one of the 'BBC Boomers' is a pair of ex editing-suite LS5/9's. Actually, they weren't used by the BBC so the front-panel tweeter adjustments aren't there, although the adjustments can still be made on the crossover board...
The chap I got them from several years ago has a modern lounge-diner kind of room. Quad 520 driven, on 20" stands a metre out from the back wall, they sounded lean and almost stark. Some surround-restored Spendor SP2/3's he also had and used on the same stands and amp sounded lush, over-ripe and truly stodgy in the classic BBC-Derived kind of way. I get the 5/9' home, stands not as high and I can't pull them out so far. Here, the mid bass is over-full, the upper mid recess (this can easily be measured in this case) seems worse and top is rather one-note and crude.. Next, I take them to old friend 'HiFi Dave' to compare with the Harbeth M30's. Both sound fairly alike (as the M30 was supposed to be a drop-in replacement) but the Harbeth was definitely better integrated and less 'slightly ragged' I felt. Tonally the sound was somewhere between the two extremes (Croft driven and on different 20" stands), the soundstage wide and deep - FAR better than at home (in a different session with them, I used a Crown amp similar to at home and it is NOT an amp mismatch! Second time around with these at Dave's, the M30 became the 30.1 and the flatter tonal balance plus other supposed refinements tales the 30.1 into a different plane of existence. Unlike other older Harbeth designs, the bass Is under control, is tuneful but not full-fat and the result is more 'monitor like' but not in a fatiguing way.
I could go on, and on, and on and this is diluting the original poster and thread, whom I'm sure can give extra memoirs of hi time at Lion House as I could in my times with Studio 99 as it was then. I first heard JBL L200's at Lion House and heard again at KJ Watford when I started there and remember I liked them although they're huge. I didn't feel it was a memorable an experience when I returned decades later (early noughties) when it became HiFi Experience in the basement floor..
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2017 15:33:02 GMT
Reminds me of the times when Dave used to advise me about the Epos ES14's which I preferred with the plugs out, but were designed to have them in.... I respected his views, but chose to carry on with what suited me better  That's is the thing with Hifi, it is all very personal and very subjective. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2017 16:04:32 GMT
I envy you your experience of both BBC designs and JBL, Dave. My limited experience of (what I THINK would be seen as) BBC designs is as follows:
Rogers LS3/5As heard in the shop when a customer brought them in. Charming, but not something I could use for all music. Nice on voice though.
Spendor BC1: Heard at a customer's house who wanted me to hear his kit because wasn't happy with his sound. I listened to a few quad amps with his Rega 3. Imaged well but just too slow and lifeless for me.
Rogers LS7: Bought from Haden Boardman. I thought the were very even toned but unexceptional in any way. Felt like they lacked clarity compared to my ES14s. These were standard LS7 and not the "t" version.
Harbeth HLP3: Touted as an LS3/5a successor. Sweet but a bit boring compared to Linn Kans. just too limited in scale and oomph for me to listen to a range of music. They didn't really remind me of the LS3/5a either.
That's not a lot. I'm not even sure if it's enough even to fully appreciate what the BBC sound is actually meant to be. The words "slow", "even-tempered" and "rounded-off" sort of spring to mind, but maybe others would see the, differently.
As for JBL, I have only tried Control 1s (far too small) and TLX3 (a cheapie) so I may be missing out. They aren't something I've come across in 30 plus years. Maybe not many made it up North?
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Post by MartinT on Dec 20, 2017 17:43:11 GMT
I used to have JBL L100-T speakers which, for their price, did a lot of things very well. They had the typical JBL clout but also a rather good titanium tweeter that was sweet and detailed, too. I believe they were manufactured in the Peerless factory sometime after JBL bought them, but it was a long time ago now so someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
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