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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2017 18:12:09 GMT
Its the standard 'L100' i always wanted. L100
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Post by MartinT on Dec 20, 2017 18:14:58 GMT
Yes, I know Andr'e. They're not at all similar.
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Post by dsjr on Dec 20, 2017 18:59:09 GMT
Maybe these latter comments could be switched to a new thread? What follows is memory and personal experiences and views.
I got all stroppy about later ES14 bungs (production with the 'phase plugs' on the main drivers) because I'd had chapter and verse from Robin Marshall about them. Not personal opinion but a design 'feature,' as the magnets weren't as powerful on these later drivers and the cone flapped about with bungs removed (long story how this came to be). He used to glue the bungs in and 'everyone' used to heave them out and make a royal mess, so in the end he gave up and left them removable. I found them too lean with bungs in and they boomed uncontrollably at 80Hz with bungs out given a frequency sweep to confirm, but I found a lovely compromise with bungs in sideways, allowing a little air to freely come out. Robin designed his ES14 drivers from scratch in the days before computer aided design - all the maths for the magnet and gap system were his work and it ended up a superb driver I think. He's one of those who KNEW what he was on about and could reasonably discuss what' what without ego, bullying or bullshit ime.
BC1's in a large room can sound lost, boxy, constricted and with the infamous low bass 'honk.' Play 'em loud and they can sound as if they're falling apart (this could act as a crude form of protection as they'd sound terrible before terminal damage was done). In a smaller room, higher stands than their 9" trolleys and away from room boundaries (the bane of all BBC-Inspired models imo), they can sound enchantimg and I have fond memories of my Radford valve driven pair I sold in 1980 to make way for pair number one of Isobariks - EEK!!! - The 'Briks had incomparably better bass but I couldn't understand why voices sounded so 'tuby...'
LS7's - Far less boomy than the Studio 1 had become I thought (Spendor had the SP1 out by this time and these were a huge step forward taken overall, although there is something special in the BC1 midrange on intimate small scale music). We sold loads of LS7's and generally these were well made I thought and customers loved them with Naim driving them (maybe the harshness livened them up?). LS7T's when new took fillings out with a vicious tweeter, but a pair I heard when fifteen years old had mellowed and sweetened no end.
P3's? I compared them directly with the Harbeth 3/5A's and on well recorded orchestral stuff there's little competition imo. Peter Grimes on late 50's Decca had a far more realistic soundstage I thought, the 3/5A's sounding confused in comparison. This was with Quad 34/306 and a cheapo Marantz CD player too - eek! The current ESR's go louder and feel more open, but I think what kills all of these is the need to have them out on the middle of the room to prevent bass issues - a thread or three all in itself to discuss this methinks... Croft driven, the ESR's can do pretty good on Massive Attack and compared to the ATC actives I was selling at the time, the ESR's 'did' brushed cymbal superbly in comparison, the ATC (SCM 20ASL Pro with original tweeters) sounding crude and rough as a badgers backside. Mids were surprisingly similar on both I thought - made me question AVI's shouting of how inferior ALL passive speakers are compared to active...
As for JBL's, I hated the L100 at the time, finding them squawky and screechy or hollow and boxy depending on control settings. Having said that, the first time Tangerine Dream's Phaedra blew my head off (I've never recovered as you can see) was via the simpler L26's and the bass quality stayed with me. Just lately, I heard some £18k 4367's and even if they might not be the dogs doodahs to many here, I had tears in my eyes hearing a GOOD large speaker again and it's made me wonder if the 4310E is any good for music other than rock and roll - JBL have done much to sort the drivers I believe, but as yet they're unheard. I'm deadly serious though, or maybe the 4307 with 10" main drivers might suit 'here' better - hmm...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2017 19:02:51 GMT
The best i heard my Tangerine Dream LPs were Celestion 'Ditton 33' ofc my fav Ditton model.
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Post by MartinT on Dec 21, 2017 6:46:59 GMT
I think AR LSTs were very impressive when I first heard them, and I certainly remember hearing Phaedra on them.
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Post by MartinT on Dec 21, 2017 7:24:31 GMT
I remember going to Audio T to listen to a Croft Series 4S power amp, telling them that I had Cambridge R40 transmission line speakers. This would have been around 1985 or so. They set up the demo with Proac Tablettes! I laughed and thought they were joking. When I suggested that it would be difficult to assess the sound with a complete octave and a half missing, they didn't seem to understand that some listeners wanted proper bass extension, not thumpy bass-doubled tiny speaker pretence.
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Post by dsjr on Dec 21, 2017 13:48:39 GMT
The Croft 4s I knew well was a softie but the OTL I had for a short while (before I feared for my and it's life after a firework display) was actually superb when it worked...
LST's - OH YES INDEEDY!!!!!!!! Far too big and expensive for used ones now, especially as the drivers need work, but I remember MST's and MST-2' having some of the wonderful personalities in a baby version...
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Post by MartinT on Dec 21, 2017 14:28:10 GMT
The Croft 4s I knew well was a softie but the OTL I had for a short while (before I feared for my and it's life after a firework display) was actually superb when it worked... When I ordered the 4S Glenn Croft phoned me personally and tried to persuade me to switch my order to an OTL. So glad I didn't!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2017 14:32:34 GMT
Thankfully the 'Hello welcome to the BBC' has passed me by along with the Quad stat legend
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2017 15:26:17 GMT
Seeing as this is already the product of thread drift, can I drift it a bit further? There are speakers I always wanted to try and didn't get to at the time. Some of these I have never seen since, despite keeping my eyes open. I was particularly taken with the look of JRT speakers made by Julian Taylor. They produced the baby "Micro" and the large stand-mount AD1. Has anyone ever seen or heard them?
I also fancied trying those Montezuma EF2(?) by Effigy Designs. They had a very unusual paint finish if anyone can recall.
I was also keen on trying BLQ Q2 by British Loudspekers. These aren't so rare, but by the time I saw some, I'd kinda moved beyond them. Still interested in any thoughts or experiences though.
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Post by MartinT on Dec 21, 2017 15:31:08 GMT
Altec Lansing Model 14. Only heard them once, never forgotten.
EDIT: I'm pretty sure I heard them at Lindair - wasn't that the store that became Lion House? Alongside the big Laskys?
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Post by dsjr on Dec 21, 2017 18:33:04 GMT
When I 'started' in the early 70's, paper cones were giving way to the new fangled Bextrene types and I have to say even my then totally inexperienced ears could tell the difference. Older Goodmans, Celestion and similar boxes could either boom as they were sat on the floor (Magnum K, Ditton 25 and 44) or had a nasty nasal 'eh' kind of sound in the upper mids - and some Tannoys weren't immune from this as I remember IIILZ's sounding not so good both then and a few years ago when I heard a pair again - maybe the boxes I don't know. I must admit I never gave the US imported models much room except for a few JBL's (I loved the L65 Jubals when lifted slightly off the floor) and of course the much loved AR models, favourites being AR7, MST, LST, AR6, AR2ax and of course the 3a and 10pi which replaced them.
My main positive vibes from '74 and '75 were of the big IMF transmission lines. They HAD to be driven by a high damping factor amp and for this task, we used the them powerful Crown (Amcron) D-150 and later 150A, which I believe is still pretty damned good today if you get a carefully looked after one Hearing the IMF Pro Monitor III a few years later (KJ bought six pairs as run-out sales fodder) when the 'plague' was raging they sounded awful. Thinking now, it was right when the LP12 was entering its fruitbox phase and floppy Naim 250's with low damping factor and built-in harshness too. The TLS80 II and pro Monitor IV (RSPM IV) were pretty effective and I heard the latter in a clients house (typical living room of a mid-wars semi, so around twelve foot square, speakers backed into the alcoves but sticking well out as they're not small) and they didn't boom at all on vinyl sources...
Is it alright me sharing this stuff? It's kind of therapy for me at the moment and the memories were of generally great times when I was mopping all this sh*t up and loving every minute of it (boy in a toy-shop mixed with bull in a china shop too - cough...).
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Post by MartinT on Dec 21, 2017 18:41:51 GMT
Dave, it's all good! Can you confirm my memory of Lindair being next to Laskys or am I misremembering?
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Post by dsjr on Dec 21, 2017 18:51:39 GMT
I can't remember - sorry...
I seem to remember that Lasky's had a few shops along the Totty Ct Road, but it's so long ago now..... I first went to one of the shops in 1973? and bought a Shure M75-ED (it was during the power cuts we were suffering).
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Post by MartinT on Dec 21, 2017 18:53:32 GMT
No problem. Did you ever hear the Altecs?
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Post by dsjr on Dec 21, 2017 19:02:14 GMT
Not specifically I'm afraid. I have good memories of the JBL L200's which dominated and these were huge even then. I'm sure I heard others briefly but not at KJ. Remember, the first pair of remotely Top End speakers I heard were JBL L26's a then new friend of mine had bought (Armstrong 621 amp and GL75 with M75-EJ). I heard the L26's also with a Scan Dyna (2400?) receiver and lastly with a Technics SU-3500, the GL75 came to me as an 18th birthday present my parents paid for and was replaced by a Technics SL1300 with V15 III. In 1978 the 3500 amp and JBL's were replaced with a Quad 44/405 and '57's... When the 405 was changed for a 606 (limiters now in the 57's), I bought the 405 and had it turned into a mk2, which entailed new amp boards, new supply caps to replace leaky old ones, phono sockets and the speaker terminals and clamp board replaced with 4mm posts... Using the 405-2 with a SNAIC interconnect made it sound rather like a Naim - the imaging was fecked with badly I recall...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2017 21:25:02 GMT
Altec Lansing Model 14. Only heard them once, never forgotten. EDIT: I'm pretty sure I heard them at Lindair - wasn't that the store that became Lion House? Alongside the big Laskys? Lindair/Lion House was on the opposite side of the road to the big Lasky's, there were two other Lasky's branches on our side of the road one just a couple of doors away. If anyone remembers the late Steve Hyams, best known as the replacement guitarist in Mott the Hoople, but a great musician in his own right. His Dad Richard bought Lindair from Bernie Linden and turned it in to Lion House. It was intended to be a HiFi department store, but later the departments became franchises and sub companies. A number of manufactures had sound proof demo studios down in the basement. I used to go down there when I was at JVC, to make sure our studio was at it's best. In the early 80s I moved back to London from the USA, and popped in there to buy some new kit. Dick Beale the genral manager asked me to work there as a salesman for a couple of weeks and then take over as technical manager and run the service department. The Altecs were gone by then (but I remember they sounded stunning). I got to play with a lot of toys and many of the companies would give me kit to "test" at home. Happy days. I was however envious of the big Lasky's over the road as they had the awesome JBL Paragon on permanent demo. At the time I had stacked ELS 57s at home and a few of my workmates had heard them and were impressed. Cue the Bose rep offering cash and prize incentives to the sales force to sell their kit. These guys started selling the punters stacked Bose systems, which were just shite. A lot of the reps would offers these "Spliffs" as they were called, 'cos it was getting harder to battle the flat earth nonsense that was going around at the time.
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Post by MartinT on Dec 21, 2017 21:30:50 GMT
I remember hearing the Paragon. However, the Altecs made more of an impression on me.
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Post by dsjr on Dec 22, 2017 10:06:08 GMT
The Lowbeats site has a proper review of the current Bose 901's and the 'wall of sound' they create. Seems that the basic driver used isn't bad in the mids, but it's worked too hard by the compulsory equaliser so you get a mush all too easily. Interesting effect in the 70's though I remember (someone I knew had a pair at home back then). I regularly heard the pro (PA) version and it's great for this purpose in free space... We sold the 301 mk4 in the 90's and it was actually very good if placed sideways on 24" stands. (I'll never speak of the 'Acoustimess' boom-box, squeaker-sat systems...)
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2017 11:15:11 GMT
There are loads of really rare and unusual speakers out there. Some of the really uncommon ones such as Alexander have been really enjoyable. Sometimes those speakers which do things a little differently end up being rare because they don't follow the flock and therefore don't sell in bigger numbers. It's been a real pleasure to hear some of the less-common ones over the years. Anyone else heard a rarity they care to share?
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