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Post by speedysteve on Apr 7, 2021 17:20:40 GMT
I generally find that the folks who are largely DIY have really focused hard on the particular aspects of the sound that are important to them and very neatly press those particular buttons. Which is great! They've precisely tuned their systems to do what they want. But if someone else comes along with a different set of hot buttons the sound can seem rather more hit and miss. Obviously, that's just a general observation, having heard quite a few DIYed systems but not either John's or Steve's. That's bollocks (excuse the language) as far as my system is concerned, where it currently is! Was more true when I had the conicals horns some 7 or 8 years ago, but I was just starting out then. Especially with the Le Clèac'h horns and improved bass work I've done, it's now it's super smooth and would have wide appeal. Oh and the mistake non handy and non engineering types often make is thinking that DIY has to be somehow amateur, and is to be looked down on! Some might be amateur, but where engineering minds are applied, that is not the case. |
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Post by jandl100 on Apr 7, 2021 18:19:09 GMT
Let's not turn this into a vulgar brawl.
I've just stated my own experiences.
I recall listening to some large DIY horns. The proud owner contemptuously dismissing my concerns over what were to me unacceptable tonal colourations (although I didn't put it that strongly, he was quite a bit bigger than me) with a casual wave of his hand and saying 'but listen to those dynamics'.
Well, yes, fair enough, the dynamic ability was quite startling and very impressive indeed.
It all comes down to musical priorities and the compromises different people are happy to live with, often enough not even seeing them as compromises.
In my experience DIY systems tend to the extremes in terms of aspects of their performance, the builders focus being on specific aspects of the sound and specific types of music.
Commercial gear tends to do some things not as well, but other things not as badly, simply I guess because it is intended to appeal to a broader market.
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Post by John on Apr 7, 2021 19:13:46 GMT
Guys music is such a personal experience. It okay if someone dose not like what they hear in my system. What counts is I enjoy it, if others enjoy it then that is a bonus!
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Post by John on Apr 7, 2021 19:16:37 GMT
I have never heard one system that sounded like somebody else system. We all have different traits we like. This is supposed to be a fun blog I know that Jerry would like to hear my system but I have no idea if he would like it or vice versa me like his system
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Post by petea on Apr 7, 2021 19:57:01 GMT
I have never heard one system that sounded like somebody else system. We all have different traits we like. This is supposed to be a fun blog I know that Jerry would like to hear my system but I have no idea if he would like it or vice versa me like his system I think that is very true. I mentioned at one point that I had spent an evening with Max Townshend listening to the system he had built (drivers included). Firstly it all looked like it came from a showroom and was beautifully built. The presentation, clarity and range of the system and the way his speakers delivered it was utterly startling and quite beguiling. However, it was not a presentation that I could probably live with every day and I have slowly assembled and tweaked my systems to present the music I like best in a certain way. Of course I like to fantasise that it is as the artist intended, but I know full well it is probably not; it is how I like it! Even live music or works I have heard live will be impossible for me to reproduce as the context, ambience, company etc will be absent. They might remind me of the event, but they will not (and can not) reproduce it. If it all means that the music I like captures me more and feels more like what I expect then that is closer to what I am looking for I suspect. I find the projects several of you present very interesting and would very much like to hear them. I appreciate the skill and craft that has gone into their creation as well as the technical background. I am fairly handy myself and have an extensive workshop, but so far have resisted building any audio equipment (optical yes, the odd automaton, but no turntables, arms or speaker systems. Yet!). Okay I have made a couple of small modifications and built / modified the equipment racks, but so far I have enjoyed more combining bits of equipment and seeing how they interact and move me closer to whatever end-point it is that I am moving towards. Anyway, enough of this ramble. Keep 'em coming please! |
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Post by steves57 on Apr 9, 2021 12:44:18 GMT
In my experience DIY systems tend to the extremes in terms of aspects of their performance, the builders focus being on specific aspects of the sound and specific types of music. Commercial gear tends to do some things not as well, but other things not as badly, simply I guess because it is intended to appeal to a broader market. Thats so true in my experence, getting any diy gear to do everything right is the holy grail.. But then what's 'right', I strongly believe that there is a correct sound, a holy grail. .. but most people, including many audio buffs don't always understand what it consists of and most certainty do not recognise the building blocks to achieve it. I remember pieter treurniet pointing out some colouration to me in a pair of colourless ? open baffle speakers at one of the early audio talk forum meets, I had not heard it and I'm sure no-one else in the room had too , but now speakers that make that sound stand out like a sore thumb me.. but to everyone else? I've lived through my diy horn speaker ( front and back horns..a few years between) phase, poor amplifier phase, how to retain dynamics phase, how to achieve lifelike bass phase.. the list goes on, and there seems an awful lot still to learn |
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Post by John on Apr 11, 2021 18:46:49 GMT
I been reflecting upon this idea of getting the sound we want and how hard this is. First it hard to really know the sound we want so often we hear something we like and then think that what I been missing only to keep repeating this.
I think we know what we like and do not like when we hear it. However, I could of never known where I would of headed, in order to get this illusive sound.
I am still in awe with the latest speaker upgrades. I now have a hybrid speaker system. The Kef being a odd shaped metal elongated dome with a in built cross overs and the bass Isobarek open baffle active crossover. Somehow I wished I could go back in time and tell myself this is what you need to do.
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Post by MikeMusic on Apr 11, 2021 18:59:55 GMT
I can only work out the sound I want if I hear it in another system Often upgrades give me a better sound but not in the way I expect I'll take 'better'  |
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Post by John on Apr 11, 2021 19:09:36 GMT
Perhaps a quick summary of my speaker journey when moving to open baffles
First was the Hawthorn Duet A step up from my Silverline SR17 as went down further A easy to live in terms of sound. But I think I have improved in every area since then
PRV and Neo Selenium's A lot more energy in the mids like a opening up of the sound, the bass has improved in terms of texture. Main weakness treble drew attention to itself and not in a good way. During this time I moved to scaffold frame this gave more detail but still the same characteristics.
Faitals line arrays. They push a lot of air Bass still cutting off at around 30hz this is because I have the eq set up at 270hz to cross over with the Faitals.
Moved to Kef Satellites Bass is going lower as now just going up to 110hz.
Then I moved to Kef 3001 se centres. Wowwwwwww. Suddenly dynamics are in a whole other league. Mid bass has a lot more detail in fact stuff I did know even existed. I think mainly as they have small drivers that go between 80 to 300hz range, They are so nimble that easily pick up on this detail. The Neos are just left to do their job
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Post by MartinT on Apr 11, 2021 19:37:22 GMT
You are right, John, first you need to establish what you want in an audio system. I think I learned as much about what I don't like from hi-fi shows and dealer demos as I ever did hearing a system I wanted to emulate.
Then the real challenge: trying to achieve that ideal sound. At the levels we're running now, every potential change can be a step backwards and involves a lot of listening to establish whether it's a change for the better.
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Post by julesd68 on Apr 11, 2021 19:51:23 GMT
I think I learned as much about what I don't like from hi-fi shows and dealer demos as I ever did hearing a system I wanted to emulate. Nail on head!! |
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Post by steves57 on Apr 11, 2021 20:44:17 GMT
I can only work out the sound I want if I hear it in another system That was not my case, my leap forwards have been mainly due to trying drivers I thought in my own mind should work well in a certain area, on the whole it has worked out well for me, all the drivers I use in my speakers I've not heard anywhere before. Same with all the valves I use in my amps |
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Post by jandl100 on Apr 11, 2021 20:44:20 GMT
Yup, as well as a Want list of things to try, I have a Don't Want list of things I have tried but intend to avoid visiting the brand again.
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Post by MikeMusic on Apr 12, 2021 9:21:32 GMT
I can only work out the sound I want if I hear it in another system That was not my case, my leap forwards have been mainly due to trying drivers I thought in my own mind should work well in a certain area, on the whole it has worked out well for me, all the drivers I use in my speakers I've not heard anywhere before. Same with all the valves I use in my amps I don't have that skill. If I explored I could probably have done it - also needed time to learn it all |
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Post by steves57 on Apr 12, 2021 18:27:27 GMT
That was not my case, my leap forwards have been mainly due to trying drivers I thought in my own mind should work well in a certain area, on the whole it has worked out well for me, all the drivers I use in my speakers I've not heard anywhere before. Same with all the valves I use in my amps I don't have that skill. If I explored I could probably have done it - also needed time to learn it all We are all different Mike, I can't spell to save my life... When I 1st got into hifi I never thought I'd end up making my own gear |
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Post by MikeMusic on Apr 12, 2021 19:07:25 GMT
I don't have that skill. If I explored I could probably have done it - also needed time to learn it all We are all different Mike, I can't spell to save my life... When I 1st got into hifi I never thought I'd end up making my own gear Life takes us to places we don't know |
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Post by John on Apr 14, 2021 17:19:05 GMT
I am giving Qobuz a try again I am enjoying it a lot more than I have in the past Not sure 8 will keep it after the trail
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Post by MartinT on Apr 14, 2021 19:36:30 GMT
I am appreciating Qobuz more than ever, John. When you have your system well sorted, you can hear it easily pull away from the other services.
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Post by jandl100 on Apr 15, 2021 5:12:49 GMT
Personally, I think it depends on what you are trying to achieve.
Qobuz gives you better rez and faster, more explosive dynamics and, I feel sure, presents a clearer view of what is on the recording. But to my ear Spotify gives more of a realistic "in hall" experience, but that's not very relevant for a lot of music.
I can have either one or both and have chosen to use Spotify for the last year or so.
Imo TIDAL takes that explicit experience one stage further than Qobuz, but depending on system synergy the brighter tonality can take it a step too far.
A lot depends on system synergy and the sound that you have built your system around. And personal preference, of course, I know my own preferences have changed over the last few years, becoming less explicit and more relaxed. I look on it as choosing a seat further back in the concert hall.
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Post by John on Apr 15, 2021 5:28:26 GMT
I agree they are different I think for me using BT5 places a natural limit on Qobuz but at present have no desire to go back to a streamer although that might change in the future.
Files still sound best on my system but really like I can have YouTube one minute and than stream and then listen to files. At the moment this is more important to me
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