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Post by malcolm on Jan 17, 2017 14:22:36 GMT
Interesting hear of peoples experiences, and what they choose to spend their money on is their business. A £90.00 fuse isn't something I would normally bother trying, although if someone is passing through East Sussex with one in their pocket and wants to hear what effect it has on my systems then it would be churlish of me to turn them away!
The only people whose opinion I would take with a pinch of salt are those that are selling these things. I know one hifi dealer who is very candid about the hifi industry and insists that I try things in my own home for at least a week, no deposit or purchase required. He reckons that there is no such thing as audio nirvana and on cables thought there was precious little difference and most of his sales of them were to well-off customers who felt that they would buy them just in case, and if spending many thousands of pounds they wanted something that, at least in monetary value, matched the rest of their system. Most dealers that I have met, however, whilst often charming and full of experience and knowledge have a living to make, which means that their opinions do represent a conflict of interest. In a forum discussion there is no problem if it is clear who they are. If they post as an ordinary forum member (in disguise, so to speak, to the uninitiated reader) then the value of everyone else's experience is diluted.
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Post by MikeMusic on Jan 17, 2017 14:32:55 GMT
I tried around 4 different fuses a few months back.
This was for me so don't remember them all.
The SR Red came top. SR Black wasn't around then.
I have the makes on a piece of paper somewhere which I can list when I find it.
After I found the SR Red came top, one at a time, I left one in the P10, another inside the P10, the Isis the Pass and the Chord
Step up in detail each time. No going back for me
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2017 14:34:49 GMT
Can test the theory in your system at least for the princely sum of £0. Could be all the improvement you need. Clean up your fuses and fuse holders, put some Deoxit on if you have any. Costs you nothing but your time and it could be beneficial in your system. Its, not EXACTLY Peter Belt levels of nuttiness, so common sense still in check. It's bit more realistic than that and worth a try. Usual electrical common sense applies of course. I'm not sure that would work for me, because I would need to do a scientifically controlled A/B test to be sure, and that is very hard to do properly without the correct equipment. Even if I thought I detected a difference in an unscientific test I would want to be sure before spending that kind of money on a fuse. Would I have to replace more than one fuse (the one in the plug for my adapter plus the one in the plug for the amp)? Would it be power amp first or would I need both power and pre? |
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Post by MartinT on Jan 17, 2017 14:41:11 GMT
Cleaning ALL mains contacts (including fuse holders and plug pins) with Deoxit yields dividends. If you go to the bother of buying Deoxit (a great product, by the way), then clean your interconnects and speaker cables too.
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Post by gazjam on Jan 17, 2017 15:41:37 GMT
Can test the theory in your system at least for the princely sum of £0. Could be all the improvement you need. Clean up your fuses and fuse holders, put some Deoxit on if you have any. Costs you nothing but your time and it could be beneficial in your system. Its, not EXACTLY Peter Belt levels of nuttiness, so common sense still in check. It's bit more realistic than that and worth a try. Usual electrical common sense applies of course. I'm not sure that would work for me, because I would need to do a scientifically controlled A/B test to be sure, and that is very hard to do properly without the correct equipment. Even if I thought I detected a difference in an unscientific test I would want to be sure before spending that kind of money on a fuse. Would I have to replace more than one fuse (the one in the plug for my adapter plus the one in the plug for the amp)? Would it be power amp first or would I need both power and pre? Fair enough, were all different mate. Not sure of best order to be honest, on that big AudioGon thread I linked to different people were putting them in different bits of kit and seeing more improvement in one type over another. Not consistent across the board though, some had best results in amps...others CD players or Dacs. Suggests it may be kit specific? For myself I figured "source first" and put one in my Transporter and got a great result. Next one in my Preamp and it was even more of an improvement. Have a look over the big SR Fuse thread on AudioGon? Maybe see someone with a similar setup to yours, sorry I couldn't be more of a help. forum.audiogon.com/discussions/synergistic-red-fuse |
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Post by BilliumB on Jan 17, 2017 16:32:03 GMT
Hi Gaz
Do you use the DAC in your Transporter, or is it digital only?
Cheers. Bill
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Post by gazjam on Jan 17, 2017 16:55:32 GMT
Hi Gaz Do you use the DAC in your Transporter, or is it digital only? Cheers. Bill Digital only Bill, Hooked up to my dac with XLR digital cable. |
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Post by BilliumB on Jan 17, 2017 17:05:20 GMT
I wonder if the fuse is somehow filtering mains noise that is being passed from the Transporter into the DAC? Is the XLR connection balanced?
Cheers. Bill
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Post by gazjam on Jan 17, 2017 17:15:22 GMT
Not sure if input in my Young Dac is balanced Bill, need to check.
Fuse is the same when running analogue outs from the TP into my pre.
Be worth trying it using optical and BNC maybe?
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Post by MartinT on Jan 17, 2017 17:30:25 GMT
I wonder if the fuse is somehow filtering mains noise that is being passed from the Transporter into the DAC? I don't think any fuse has filtering properties. What you're doing is using one with a more linear progression in the working operating area that goes non-linear and blows only close to its limit current. Thus less constriction in the normal working area. |
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Post by dsjr on Jan 17, 2017 18:46:45 GMT
You're not saying anything new, Dave. We've been here already and no-one is disagreeing with that statement. However, many of us either a) don't want to lose the safety in having fuses in the first place or b) don't want to invalidate our house insurance. Yes, you can (purely use ears). That's what we do when we're listening to music, after all. If you're happy with the money you can obviously afford to spend on fuses, tweaks and suchlike, then good for you, but what of the room change you've encountered recently? The massive differences you describe kind of put a fuse or two into perspective, no? I'm not arguing, but I for one need to put some kind of perspective on it all. By the way, if you do some work and test yourself over a week or three, I think you'll find your ears and interpreting mind are the most unreliable of the lot where subjective-only tests are concerned and that's why we like different styles/genres of music to listen to at different times, to suit how we feel. There have been tests concerning peoples inability for consistent preferences I believe, one that springs to mind was wine tasting or similar. Perhaps it's me and I have all this totally wrong, but my ears now at 60 sadly change almost daily. I think both systems are unbalanced then discover it's my left ear canal filling with goo. I get that sorted and have a day when both systems sparkle and sound as delightful as they can. Next day both sound as dull as ditchwater. So forgive me please for dismissing the 'subjective only' point of view, as in my case, I'm long past that kind of thing and I need some form of objective back-up to my hearing.P,S. I didn't to my knowledge recommend wholesale fuse removal, but for the purpose of the test I had in mind, it would be ok over the course of a few hours just to check something. In my lengthy career around this industry, I've seen many circuits blow while 'protecting' the protection fuse (it was a prize Murphey's law back in my day). It would also be interesting to see what mods and/or tweaks have been done to the Transporter over the years for even better sound, as they used to have a very busy forum I recall. Anyway, I digress and I do humbly apologise if I appear to be a blinkered old twat purely out to spoil people's fun in this. By the way, my posting rights have been removed on another rarely spoken-of forum because I'm seen there as a maverick arch-subjectivist. Who'd have thunk it  |
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Post by gazjam on Jan 17, 2017 19:13:40 GMT
The old squeezebox still has quite the following Dave, had a few over the years and finally settled on the Transporter. New lease of life actually now that Roon has Squeezebox support, short of a lottery win its the one for me.  Anyway, the Transporter I have is stock with no mods done to it. Use it purely as a digital transport into my Young Dac via XLR. I put a second SR fuse in my Densen DM-20 preamp's IEC housing by the way, an even bigger improvement than than putting one in the Transporter. Over on the big AudioGon thread fuses have been put in lots of different types of kit with success. I've younger ears fortunately and prefer the measuring equipment strapped to the side of my head to men in white coats with lab equipment! You go to a gig and its all about the music, my stereo at home is exactly the same. |
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Post by John on Jan 17, 2017 19:45:55 GMT
Whilst speaker positioning and a new room can make a big difference to sound. Changing to a bigger room is not a luxury most people can afford.
About a year ago I played around with Fuses and yes I could hear a difference and now use SR Reds which for me at the time were the best I tested. I no plans to update for myself
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Post by MartinT on Jan 17, 2017 19:51:45 GMT
No problem, Dave, and it's always good to discuss these things. To answer a few of your points:
My room change has made the system more revealing of tweaks like fuses, not less so. The one fuse change I made here, an SR Black for my preamp rear panel, was quite a revealing exercise.
Affordable is a relative thing. Relative to the cost of my system, a £90 tweak that works is a bargain.
I've alluded to the subconscious not lying and that is my best arbiter of a lasting change for the better. As time goes on, I find that subconscious feeling to be the most reliable of judges. Equally, if I make things worse, my discomfort increases with time.
I have at least tried to offer an explanation of why a better fuse design may sound better which at least makes sense to my engineering brain. A little objectivity to go with the subjective impressions.
Finally, you will not have your posting rights removed at TAS for just posting your viewpoints. We're a little more broadminded here than that.
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Post by BilliumB on Jan 17, 2017 20:51:56 GMT
I wonder if the fuse is somehow filtering mains noise that is being passed from the Transporter into the DAC? I don't think any fuse has filtering properties. What you're doing is using one with a more linear progression in the working operating area that goes non-linear and blows only close to its limit current. Thus less constriction in the normal working area. Any thoughts then on how non-linearity in the supply fuse might make the purely digital use of Gaz's Transporter sound better? I can see how it might affect analogue kit - that's the reason for my question to Gaz on his use of the Transporter. It would be really interesting if someone felt flush enought to take one of these fuses to bits! Cheers. Bill |
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Post by Stratmangler on Jan 17, 2017 21:01:57 GMT
Any thoughts then on how non-linearity in the supply fuse might make the purely digital use of Gaz's Transporter sound better? I can see how it might affect analogue kit - that's the reason for my question to Gaz on his use of the Transporter. It would be really interesting if someone felt flush enought to take one of these fuses to bits! Cheers. Bill Digital sits on an analogue carrier - if there's no carrier then it doesn't work Digital itself is one analogue state switching to another analogue state, just very rapidly. It would be interesting if someone did take one of these fuses apart. |
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Post by MartinT on Jan 17, 2017 21:26:42 GMT
If improved power supplies can make a DAC or a CD transport sound a lot better, then anything is possible. I certainly found that a linear power supply made a Logitech Touch sound better when feeding only digital out.
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Post by Stratmangler on Jan 17, 2017 21:36:41 GMT
If improved power supplies can make a DAC or a CD transport sound a lot better, then anything is possible. I certainly found that a linear power supply made a Logitech Touch sound better when feeding only digital out. I have decent linear PSUs on my Squeezebox Touch and separate DAC too. And they both improve the performance of their respective components. Go on the Slim Devices forum, and the hardcore "scientists" will shout you down, saying it isn't possible. None of them has the wit to actually try it for themselves. |
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Post by Mr Whippy on Jan 17, 2017 22:15:05 GMT
You're not saying anything new, Dave. We've been here already and no-one is disagreeing with that statement. However, many of us either a) don't want to lose the safety in having fuses in the first place or b) don't want to invalidate our house insurance. Yes, you can (purely use ears). That's what we do when we're listening to music, after all. If you're happy with the money you can obviously afford to spend on fuses, tweaks and suchlike, then good for you, but what of the room change you've encountered recently? The massive differences you describe kind of put a fuse or two into perspective, no? I'm not arguing, but I for one need to put some kind of perspective on it all. By the way, if you do some work and test yourself over a week or three, I think you'll find your ears and interpreting mind are the most unreliable of the lot where subjective-only tests are concerned and that's why we like different styles/genres of music to listen to at different times, to suit how we feel. There have been tests concerning peoples inability for consistent preferences I believe, one that springs to mind was wine tasting or similar. Perhaps it's me and I have all this totally wrong, but my ears now at 60 sadly change almost daily. I think both systems are unbalanced then discover it's my left ear canal filling with goo. I get that sorted and have a day when both systems sparkle and sound as delightful as they can. Next day both sound as dull as ditchwater. So forgive me please for dismissing the 'subjective only' point of view, as in my case, I'm long past that kind of thing and I need some form of objective back-up to my hearing.P,S. I didn't to my knowledge recommend wholesale fuse removal, but for the purpose of the test I had in mind, it would be ok over the course of a few hours just to check something. In my lengthy career around this industry, I've seen many circuits blow while 'protecting' the protection fuse (it was a prize Murphey's law back in my day). It would also be interesting to see what mods and/or tweaks have been done to the Transporter over the years for even better sound, as they used to have a very busy forum I recall. Anyway, I digress and I do humbly apologise if I appear to be a blinkered old twat purely out to spoil people's fun in this. By the way, my posting rights have been removed on another rarely spoken-of forum because I'm seen there as a maverick arch-subjectivist. Who'd have thunk it AOS? That Bastian of Free Speech, Equality, Fair and Open-mindedness? Or so I once thought. Can't we have an inter-forum punch-up? I'll hold your coat, Dave. I'm trying one of these:  |
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Post by pre65 on Jan 17, 2017 23:48:33 GMT
I use two resetable minature circuit breakers on a dual mono valve amp power supply that I built ages ago.
There was a time, due to a "senior moment", when I mixed up the umbilical connections,and on switch on the MCB tripped immediately.
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