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Post by The Brookmeister on Jan 12, 2017 21:28:29 GMT
Certain things amuse me highly, make me laugh out loud so to speak, makes a change these days as I am grumpier than ever usually.
When I see a long thread about fuses (let's face it these discussions have gone on forever and are oh so boring) I always skip to what the non believers (either because they cannot afford the fuse, have no hifi at all and are just on the forum because they have nothing better to do or simply like a good argument) have to say.
Hi-Fi is about using your ears, its not emotionally involving watching a cd player light up or your turntable spinning, its listening that stirs the emotions. So if Mr A or Mr B has spent £90 on a fuse, fits it and is more emotionally involved with the music because of it and goddamn it he/she actually ENJOYS THEMSELVES more as a result who gives a fl...g f..k how the thing measures and why it does what it does.
Rant over.
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Post by MikeMusic on Jan 12, 2017 21:37:03 GMT
The more the kit delivers the better. Matters not if it is the kit or any of the accessories like fuses, just has to deliver.
Those who deny such improvements are impossible - *without trying them out* - are deniers. As in climate change deniers.
Trying out tweaks and not hearing any difference puzzles me.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2017 21:43:14 GMT
Well said. I just laugh when I see the inevitable responses:
1. It can't make a difference (although they have not tried it) 2. You've conned yourself into believing because you've spent money on it (even though it was bought on approval) 3. It's crazy to spend more than a few pence on a fuse (even though it's not their money)
Anyone posting any of the above should get a life IMO
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Post by ChrisB on Jan 12, 2017 21:50:15 GMT
I'll make a wild guess and venture that this refers to a thread somewhere else!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2017 21:58:54 GMT
It was actually a general response to the last dozen or so threads on fuses. It doesn't seem to mater which forum because the arguments are the same. I should have added " it can't work because you can't measure it". I don't know why the naysayers even care. Like any hifi item, nobody's asking them to fork out.
i haven't tried audiophile fuses but I have heard all of the above said about cables too. I scratch my head and wonder how people can't hear a difference with cables but I'm not asking them to shell out. Just live and let live when it comes to other people's purchases.
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Post by MartinT on Jan 12, 2017 22:29:12 GMT
Just try the damned things and listen for yourself. That applies to any component.
I'm using £60 SR Red fuses throughout. Are they better than no fuse at all? Of course not! Are they better than standard fuses? Yes, they sound better. Are they worth the money? Only you can decide. For me, yes they are.
QED
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2017 22:36:09 GMT
ill try to bite my tongue..
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Post by ChrisB on Jan 12, 2017 22:52:05 GMT
It was actually a general response to the last dozen or so threads on fuses. It doesn't seem to mater which forum because the arguments are the same. Sorry Andrew, I was referring to the OP.
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Post by Slinger on Jan 12, 2017 23:04:32 GMT
Certain things amuse me highly, make me laugh out loud so to speak, makes a change these days as I am grumpier than ever usually. When I see a long thread about fuses (let's face it these discussions have gone on forever and are oh so boring) I always skip to what the non believers (either because they cannot afford the fuse, have no hifi at all and are just on the forum because they have nothing better to do or simply like a good argument) have to say. Hi-Fi is about using your ears, its not emotionally involving watching a cd player light up or your turntable spinning, its listening that stirs the emotions. So if Mr A or Mr B has spent £90 on a fuse, fits it and is more emotionally involved with the music because of it and goddamn it he/she actually ENJOYS THEMSELVES more as a result who gives a fl...g f..k how the thing measures and why it does what it does. Rant over. Surely, as someone who sells ninety quid fuses, your view is not exactly objective? You do run MCRU don't you? I'm sure it used to be declared on your sig? Sorry if I've got the wrong bloke.
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Post by jandl100 on Jan 12, 2017 23:10:16 GMT
Maybe he sells them because he thinks they work? Some businesses work like that. I've tried some cheaper audiophile fuses and heard a difference although it didn't seem like an improvement to me. Thanks to the current AOS thread, and my hifi budget being replenished at the start of the year, I've ordered one of the £90 jobbies. Well, it's money back if not happy.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2017 23:15:33 GMT
Try not to blow it Joking aside i Scrapped everything like this in my old system, Fancy Mains leads, Interconnects, Isolation, even the stereo itself. Nowadays i used an old system in the fashion that Blokes did back in da 70's before all this malarky came along. I don't miss a single bit of it, in fact i think my stereo sounds better than eva.
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Post by AlanS on Jan 13, 2017 9:06:23 GMT
I see stimulated interest and noting a few are going to try some super fuses. I wonder if ANYONE reports back they made no difference. Returned and refunded.
As ever I await descriptions of how different tryers report.
I shall not be testing them in my system. Thats because I do not seek to tweak (or notice) the last gram of improvement because I cannot remember what it sounded like last time.
Enjoy your music
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Post by MartinT on Jan 13, 2017 10:26:42 GMT
I wonder if ANYONE reports back they made no difference. When I bought my first one, there was plenty of chance to note if it made no difference and can the idea there and then.
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Bonky
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Post by Bonky on Jan 13, 2017 17:02:17 GMT
I don’t know what some readers here expect. If I said, for example, that smearing Stilton onto plugs whilst reciting the first paragraph of Beowulf backwards - before putting said plugs into mains sockets - improved the SQ of my hi-fi, I HOPE the overall reaction would be healthy scepticism.
Why? Because if flies in the face of not only scientific principles but Common Sense.
So it is with cables and fuses (I notice, with interest, that much of the AV forums/websites now acknowledge that there is NO difference in quality between HDMI cables (with the possible exception of the give-away freebies)).
Mains cables… 400 yards of poor, noisy, cabling to the house and then a metre of highly expensive ‘audiophile’ cable is meant to make a difference? (Assuming all male-female connectors are cleaned/gold). Silver fuses? Well I could believe that if the resistance was lower than the standard fuse; (the comparison here BTW must be between the new silver fuse and the former fuse whose contacts have been cleaned). People are rightly sceptical because it flies in the face, as I have said, of received information.
I am not one of those (like Lord Kelvin) who believes that if it can’t be measured it cannot exist, but in cases like this the first port of call must be robust, unbiased measurements followed by double-blind, randomised, A-B comparisons (followed by a suitable stats test). This is the way -the only way- science can move us forward. However, the Subjective-Objective argument is an interesting one and one aired to death and beyond on various forums -especially the AoS one.
It is still possible for people to swear that they can hear a difference. The placebo effect here is very strong (read Dr Ben Goldsmith’s book “BadScience”), and this may account for these perceived differences, as may the fact that they were right all along! Science does have these exciting monumental shifts ( called ‘paradigm shifts’) but they are extremely rare!
For those of us who have lived our lives in the ‘caring professions’ perhaps we have an over-developed sense of protection/duty of care. I still think it is right to point out the inherent fallacy of such ‘improvements’, if only to stop the poor and gullible from being duped by snake-oil salesmen. What they should do is wait until there is a large enough body of authoritative opinion that ‘x’ is an improvement before parting with their cash. Unfortunately Hi-Fi mags have been less than reliable here and there is, at present, a very unhelpful attitude (“popularism”) by the general public towards experts and authority. (I am also a hypocrite here as I have often prematurely jumped in with both feet…does anyone else recall the fitting of small black sticky triangles on the upper right side of all mains plugs connected to the hi-fi - I still have one!).
I wonder which rare-earth element, randomly picked from the Periodic Table, will be the next ‘golden-ear’ must-have.
So what DO we do with people who say as the OP, that, ‘never mind what others say I can hear a difference and that’s all that matters’? Well, I really don't know. Let them get on with it I suppose (as long as they can afford it); but don’t let them persuade others(?). Don’t be rude? I really don’t know!
In conclusion, I am not saying that the Objective/Empirical model is the only one but healthy scepticism for what may appear ‘non-sense’ is just that - healthy. (Sorry it’s taken me so long to say it). …and before any potential key-board warriors get frothing at the mouth…yes I DO have silver fuses AND expensive mains cables (I am more convinced that the latter have an advantage due to screening). Do they sound better…? Certainly if the Stilton (see Para1) is accompanied by a good Port.
Yours, Bonky.
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Post by pre65 on Jan 13, 2017 17:12:39 GMT
I'm always interested to hear about anything that could improve the sound I hear from MY system.
But, it has to be tempered with the costs involved, and an understanding of what is happening to cause the difference. Notice I say difference rather than improvement.
So, I don't dis-believe the merits of the £90 fuse, but It's very unlikely I'd buy one.
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Post by Nick on Jan 13, 2017 17:25:25 GMT
Phil, you wouldn't buy it if it was 90p
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Post by pre65 on Jan 13, 2017 17:30:06 GMT
Phil, you wouldn't buy it if it was 90p Yes but, no but ! I'm a thrifty pensioner. I've spent about £500 on various bits for the system recently, and that's my years allowance.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2017 17:35:01 GMT
I have a question about the SR Black fuses. How quickly do they blow in relation to a standard fuse? For example a 3.15A Slo-blow fuse?
I looked for the specs online, but could not find any.
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Post by Chris on Jan 13, 2017 18:42:25 GMT
I think there's a fine line here. To me then forums are great for undiscovered items and finding things at £20 that give 7/8ths the performance of something costing £1000. They are out there. I'm in that middle ground of opinion here - I think various add ons do make a difference but a lot of them don't warrant the prices charged.
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Post by MartinT on Jan 13, 2017 18:46:33 GMT
In conclusion, I am not saying that the Objective/Empirical model is the only one but healthy scepticism for what may appear ‘non-sense’ is just that - healthy. (Sorry it’s taken me so long to say it). We all choose our poison, to some extent. To me, special fuses and equipment supports are perfectly explicable, cables less so, special stones to put on your equipment not at all. Ultimately, though, this is an emotional passion (listening to music) and therefore listening is the final arbiter. Even as an engineer I recognise that.
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