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Post by AlanS on Jan 14, 2017 14:39:57 GMT
Phew...this ones got noticed! Had went as far as dry wiping fuses and noticed an improvement before, but never thought about foo fuses at all. Came across this thread by accident actually on AudioGon forum here: forum.audiogon.com/discussions/synergistic-red-fuse (all 60 odd pages of it) Consistent pattern of these things being *good* and a few of the guys opinions posting on there I'd trust not to be making it up. So took a punt, 30 day trial why not? Agree with the opinions on that AudioGon thread, better upgrade than any cable swap Ive done. Would never bypass an internal fuse personally, The sound is so good with it in and I like knowing my equipment is protected, so a step too far for me. Its always good knowing your kits running at its best, with these I fit n forget and say job done. Its bonkers pricing for 'just a fuse', I get that... but the sound per pound improvement (to me in my system) is off the chart. Sharing experiece..Its what Forums are for innit? I don't have a Logitech Transporter or anything near it unless a Rpi which does the job of taking disc images and passing them to a DAC? So I won't extend any interest. Will you be trying more in things like amplifiers, phono stages, tuners, tape decks? I bet the manufacturers and retailers of £90 fuses love you. You might get a discount.
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Post by MartinT on Jan 14, 2017 14:57:25 GMT
All this talk of placebo and expectation bias are just smoke and mirrors. It's quite possible to evaluate a change properly without bias or expectation if you set your mind to just listening to the music. As to being ripped off, see here.
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Post by gazjam on Jan 14, 2017 15:10:13 GMT
Valid point Malcolm, Was happy though to send it back if I didn't like it.
It was a 'what if' punt I took just because it had 30 day trial period. Wouldn't have bought it otherwise.
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Post by gazjam on Jan 14, 2017 15:13:10 GMT
Phew...this ones got noticed! Had went as far as dry wiping fuses and noticed an improvement before, but never thought about foo fuses at all. Came across this thread by accident actually on AudioGon forum here: forum.audiogon.com/discussions/synergistic-red-fuse (all 60 odd pages of it) Consistent pattern of these things being *good* and a few of the guys opinions posting on there I'd trust not to be making it up. So took a punt, 30 day trial why not? Agree with the opinions on that AudioGon thread, better upgrade than any cable swap Ive done. Would never bypass an internal fuse personally, The sound is so good with it in and I like knowing my equipment is protected, so a step too far for me. Its always good knowing your kits running at its best, with these I fit n forget and say job done. Its bonkers pricing for 'just a fuse', I get that... but the sound per pound improvement (to me in my system) is off the chart. Sharing experiece..Its what Forums are for innit? I don't have a Logitech Transporter or anything near it unless a Rpi which does the job of taking disc images and passing them to a DAC? So I won't extend any interest. Will you be trying more in things like amplifiers, phono stages, tuners, tape decks? I bet the manufacturers and retailers of £90 fuses love you. You might get a discount. Sarcasm? its only hifi Alan, no need mate. We're all free to spend our hard earned as we please, sure thats right?
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Post by AlanS on Jan 14, 2017 15:20:46 GMT
I don't have a Logitech Transporter or anything near it unless a Rpi which does the job of taking disc images and passing them to a DAC? So I won't extend any interest. Will you be trying more in things like amplifiers, phono stages, tuners, tape decks? I bet the manufacturers and retailers of £90 fuses love you. You might get a discount. Sarcasm? its only hifi Alan, no need mate. Not sarcasm but you side step if you will be trying more devices and get a discount. Sorry not your mate just a fellow forum member. I have found most things that people such as yourself rave about so much just don't do it for me. Enjoy your fuse.
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Post by gazjam on Jan 14, 2017 15:22:48 GMT
Charmin... Who peed on your cornflakes?
Was a figure of speech. Ah well, takes all sorts.
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Post by MikeMusic on Jan 14, 2017 15:24:49 GMT
Quite.
Let's keep pushing for better sound, no matter how it comes
Money back guarantee ? And on a fuse ! Grab it, send it back if not good enough
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Post by malcolm on Jan 14, 2017 16:34:31 GMT
All this talk of placebo and expectation bias are just smoke and mirrors. It's quite possible to evaluate a change properly without bias or expectation if you set your mind to just listening to the music. As to being ripped off, see here. In this sort of discussion I can only speak for myself (as I hoped I made clear). I am most certainly subject to expectation bias, peer approval, induced dissatisfaction and all the rest, and that's despite having a background which has involved having dealings with advertising and PR people, not to mention an interest in psychology. If I am just listening to the music then small differences pale into insignificance. If I am studying the sound to access if there is any difference then I become aware just how difficult it is to make comparisons of the moving target that is music. Even if listening to a short section of music there is so much going on that it is difficult to make a comparison - it is not as if you can compare two things side by side (as with two pictures) so much as one after the other and then aural memory has to be taken into account. Given these difficulties I think it is well nigh impossible to come up with much more than a feeling about the effect of things. Not that that need be a problem as it is how we feel about a thing, involving all those pesky subconscious emotions, that most affects our ultimate enjoyment. If purchasing an item has a positive effect on our enjoyment in listening to music then that is a good thing no matter how it is achieved. After all listening to music in the home is an illusion. Last night I had Rostropovich playing Britten's First Cello Suite in front of me. With eyes closed the illusion was spookily realistic, despite there being fresh air between the speakers where the sound was coming from and Rostropovich being dead. What interests me, and this not said to provoke, is how anyone can be so sure that they are actually hearing a difference rather than perceiving it. How is it possible to free oneself of the baggage that makes us human and our perceptions so personal. I think I could understand that someone very accomplished in mediation might have the skills to make a good stab at it; damned if I could though.
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Post by malcolm on Jan 14, 2017 16:37:19 GMT
Valid point Malcolm, Was happy though to send it back if I didn't like it. It was a 'what if' punt I took just because it had 30 day trial period. Wouldn't have bought it otherwise. Just had a little thought. If the fuse blows will they still take it back...
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Post by MikeMusic on Jan 14, 2017 16:37:26 GMT
I'm certain I hear differences - when I do. Sometimes subtle other times dramatic.
If I'm not sure I go back and forth once or twice. If it involves spending money and I'm not sure I don't spend the money
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Post by Clive on Jan 14, 2017 17:04:00 GMT
Oh fuses....they are something which I suspect can make a difference but I'm trying to not get drawn into this downward spiral as I'll worsen my OCD.
Fuses seem to be rather like placing a constriction on a pipe, if fuses are to work properly them must be somewhat restrictive or restrictive. Maybe some of what people hear as an improvement is due to over-rated fuses, eg 13A where 3A is appropriate. There's also oxidisation of contacts in combination with a somewhat resistive fuse. Something I noticed a couple of days ago comes to mind; one of my 300B monoblocks was down on power, the vocal image was off-centre, I need a 2 to 3db correction to fix it. I thought..oh no a valve is dying. It turned to be be some oxidisation in the driver valve anode cap. The oxidisation was fairly minor. Maybe the effects with boutique fuses is along the same lines. I hope so as I really don't want to get into tweaky fuses. Please no!
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Post by MartinT on Jan 14, 2017 17:04:06 GMT
It's the just listening to the music that is the real test. Small, sometimes tiny, differences penetrate the consciousness like no amount of concentration will reveal. That's why the best test is to relax and listen to familiar material. Sometimes it can take some time but your inner self will know for sure whether you hear a difference or no change.
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Post by The Brookmeister on Jan 14, 2017 17:15:46 GMT
It's the just listening to the music that is the real test. Small, sometimes tiny, differences penetrate the consciousness like no amount of concentration will reveal. That's why the best test is to relax and listen to familiar material. Sometimes it can take some time but your inner self will know for sure whether you hear a difference or no change. And after all is that not the point of audiophile tweaks? Getting one step closer to audio nirvana?
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Post by MartinT on Jan 14, 2017 17:20:19 GMT
What interests me, and this not said to provoke, is how anyone can be so sure that they are actually hearing a difference rather than perceiving it. How is it possible to free oneself of the baggage that makes us human and our perceptions so personal. I think I could understand that someone very accomplished in mediation might have the skills to make a good stab at it; damned if I could though. I meant to quote this earlier, Malcolm. Not provoked at all, but I do truly believe that listening to music forms a deep emotional connection. We hear a lot more than the conscious listening reveals. I sometimes marvel at the small changes I perceive over the course of listening to an album. You can't really lie to yourself and I am not inclined to try. I have rejected some components and some accessories that just didn't work for me. There was no expectation bias at work then, either!
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Post by Mr Whippy on Jan 14, 2017 18:01:44 GMT
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Barry
Rank: Trio
Posts: 195
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Post by Barry on Jan 15, 2017 1:20:01 GMT
All this talk of placebo and expectation bias are just smoke and mirrors. It's quite possible to evaluate a change properly without bias or expectation if you set your mind to just listening to the music.As to being ripped off, see here. Yes it's possible, but can be difficult unless one returns to the status quo after say a week of having listening to the change. Many so-called improvements are just that: a "change", different but not an overall improvement.
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Post by MartinT on Jan 15, 2017 12:10:48 GMT
I can't disagree with you there, Barry.
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Post by ChrisB on Jan 15, 2017 12:13:48 GMT
Going back to check is the most vital part of the process!
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Post by MikeMusic on Jan 15, 2017 12:15:24 GMT
I come back to the old set up again when it is subtle or I'm not so sure.
The SR Red fuses were a no brainer. No need to revisit for me
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Post by AlanS on Jan 15, 2017 14:41:29 GMT
All this talk of placebo and expectation bias are just smoke and mirrors. It's quite possible to evaluate a change properly without bias or expectation if you set your mind to just listening to the music. As to being ripped off, see here. In this sort of discussion I can only speak for myself (as I hoped I made clear). I am most certainly subject to expectation bias, peer approval, induced dissatisfaction and all the rest, and that's despite having a background which has involved having dealings with advertising and PR people, not to mention an interest in psychology. If I am just listening to the music then small differences pale into insignificance. If I am studying the sound to access if there is any difference then I become aware just how difficult it is to make comparisons of the moving target that is music. Even if listening to a short section of music there is so much going on that it is difficult to make a comparison - it is not as if you can compare two things side by side (as with two pictures) so much as one after the other and then aural memory has to be taken into account. Given these difficulties I think it is well nigh impossible to come up with much more than a feeling about the effect of things. Not that that need be a problem as it is how we feel about a thing, involving all those pesky subconscious emotions, that most affects our ultimate enjoyment. If purchasing an item has a positive effect on our enjoyment in listening to music then that is a good thing no matter how it is achieved. After all listening to music in the home is an illusion. Last night I had Rostropovich playing Britten's First Cello Suite in front of me. With eyes closed the illusion was spookily realistic, despite there being fresh air between the speakers where the sound was coming from and Rostropovich being dead. What interests me, and this not said to provoke, is how anyone can be so sure that they are actually hearing a difference rather than perceiving it. How is it possible to free oneself of the baggage that makes us human and our perceptions so personal. I think I could understand that someone very accomplished in mediation might have the skills to make a good stab at it; damned if I could though. Thank you. I sometimes hear something new in some music never noticed before but I don't ascribe it an upgrade or a change. Just as I notice something with my eyes I hadn't seen before. I am mindful a whole raft of environment and state of being changes happen, I am not a fixed entity.
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