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Post by MartinT on Feb 6, 2018 18:21:03 GMT
On the one hand, the naysayers are suggesting that I don't need a fuse on a radial circuit despite my qualified electrician suggesting that I do to comply with the law. I'll go with his direction over other unqualified 'advice', thanks.
On the other hand, you're telling me that I shouldn't use a fuse without a BS mark as if that's the only arbiter of fusible quality, despite my having a properly wired-in and functioning breaker at the consumer unit giving overall protection since 'fuses never blow any more'.
So which is it, because you really can't have it both ways!
Putting that all aside (as I do because it's just a distraction), all the naysayers appear to be the ones who have never tried a specialist fuse.
Meanwhile, I'm going over to listen to some more music. Because that's what it's all about.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2018 21:58:34 GMT
Whilst I agree that listening to music is what it is all about, unless the fuse meets the relevant standards, are you not kind of ignoring the advice given to you by your qualified electrician?
What proof do you have that it is really a fuse?
It looks like a fuse? It obviously does not conform to British Standards for plug fuses or we would have gonad some proof by now.
But how can you take this seriously?
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Post by nrg on Feb 6, 2018 22:08:02 GMT
Sorry Martin what are you talking about. You realise you can still use BS546 round pin plugs, that have no fuse? Install a radial and you can use them with the appropriate breaker to match the wiring. You can do the same, ask another sparky. I’m not telling you anything, the BSI stipulates what should be used, where are the testing standards agency’s approvals for these fuses? Is there anything stamped on them, ask your qualified electrician if they comply with the standards...oh and for the record I’m not a naysayer,,. Im not questioning what your’re hearing or perceive to hear.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2018 23:58:58 GMT
Synergistic Research have this to say:
So they are ok for me to use.
I did ask about the British Standards as well.
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Post by MartinT on Feb 7, 2018 6:43:45 GMT
I'm very happy with my decision making, thank you all. There is plenty of protection and my setup complies with what my sparky has told me is required. The fuses are CE rated which is good enough to ensure that they act as fuses. I also have a fast breaker to back them up. nrg I cannot use round pins since the P10 has 13A sockets on the back. More importantly, these fuses help my system to sound better. Last night I have never heard the system sound so good. Playing a mixture of live and studio recordings, everything gave me a little more. The burn-in process continues. I shall be buying two more Blues at least, for my preamp and power amp. |
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Post by nrg on Feb 7, 2018 8:30:45 GMT
Ah I see.
As a data point on ‘CE’:
“NOTE: CE Marking is NEVER appropriate for domestic mains plugs and sockets. The CE Marking scheme is a self-certification scheme to indicate that a product complies with the relevant EU Directive. There is no such thing as “CE approval”. Domestic plugs and sockets, such as those conforming to BS 1363, are controlled by national standards, not EU standards, and must not therefore have a CE Marking applied to them. (See page 7 of Guidlines on the application of Directive 2006/95/EC )“
I assume it applies to BS 1362 as well. Edit, it does apparently.
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Post by MartinT on Feb 7, 2018 8:40:47 GMT
Ok, thanks for that. I have asked SR for info on certifications, we'll see what comes back.
It isn't going to stop me using them, though.
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Post by brian2957 on Feb 7, 2018 10:14:19 GMT
On the one hand, the naysayers are suggesting that I don't need a fuse on a radial circuit despite my qualified electrician suggesting that I do to comply with the law. I'll go with his direction over other unqualified 'advice', thanks. On the other hand, you're telling me that I shouldn't use a fuse without a BS mark as if that's the only arbiter of fusible quality, despite my having a properly wired-in and functioning breaker at the consumer unit giving overall protection since 'fuses never blow any more'. So which is it, because you really can't have it both ways! Putting that all aside (as I do because it's just a distraction), all the naysayers appear to be the ones who have never tried a specialist fuse. Meanwhile, I'm going over to listen to some more music. Because that's what it's all about. . |
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Post by nrg on Feb 7, 2018 13:02:48 GMT
I’ve now had time to listen to the copper replacement ‘fuses’. Im pretty well tuned into my setup as I’m sure you all are with yours, mine hasn’t change for about three years except for the odd turntable or three.
I can detect differences in interconnects, cartridge VTF/VTA, valves etc. some changes are subtle some not so so I’m confident in my ability in detecting differences.
I tried them in both my phono/preamp and power amp. And combinations of the two with a wide variety of music.
I can honestly say I cannot hear any differences at all between the standard 13amp fuse and the copper rod. If there is a difference it’s well below my threshold of hearing or my gear is not resolving it or maybe the stars aren’t aligned for me. I’ll go for the latter.
Anyhow, bottom line, I’m not investing, I’m out!
Have fun!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2018 13:18:31 GMT
Ok, thanks for that. I have asked SR for info on certifications, we'll see what comes back. It isn't going to stop me using them, though. I already asked the question, but they avoided answering about if they conform to British Standards, choosing to respond to the CE part of my question. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2018 13:33:29 GMT
Wonky,
They are two specific segments to CE certification if you like.
Those that choose to self certify, in that the manufacturer of said product has 'Taken all due diligence" in the aspects of manufacturing of their products and tested it to the safety standards and they are confident it more than meets the required uniformity certification's concerning that product such as one being the LVD (low volt directive which covers all products Over 50Vac) along with others that are applicable to the said product they are manufacturing. This is self certification.
You can opt to have your product tested at an approved CE testing facility where it is subjected to all manner of the tests that would be involved in the operation and safety aspects of that particular product. As well as the testing the product a build manual must be produced as part of the approval process as is the CE marking symbol, style, size and font required as well and believe it the packaging as well.
Small manufacturers CE approval costs are quite high, although they range from say £400 for a small portable audio device with limited emissions. They can go into many 10 of thousands for a single product.
The amplifier we had UK certified recently (a small 100W solid state device) cost just over £3000 for the process which took around 10 weeks to complete.
Now BOTH ways are perfectly legal, the difference is as our legal adviser points out.
Self certification if there is a problem and someone is injured, then the onus is on the manufacturer to demonstrate the product is safe.
CE approval by a certified testing house and the onus is the insurance company / law to prove it was not safe
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Post by John on Feb 7, 2018 14:02:00 GMT
a I’ve now had time to listen to the copper replacement ‘fuses’. Im pretty well tuned into my setup as I’m sure you all are with yours, mine hasn’t change for about three years except for the odd turntable or three. I can detect differences in interconnects, cartridge VTF/VTA, valves etc. some changes are subtle some not so so I’m confident in my ability in detecting differences. I tried them in both my phono/preamp and power amp. And combinations of the two with a wide variety of music. I can honestly say I cannot hear any differences at all between the standard 13amp fuse and the copper rod. If there is a difference it’s well below my threshold of hearing or my gear is not resolving it or maybe the stars aren’t aligned for me. I’ll go for the latter. Anyhow, bottom line, I’m not investing, I’m out! Have fun! I think anyone who gets anything like this need to get on sale or return basis In fact I think nearly anything HIFI related is best tested in your own system I think this is all so variable |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2018 14:23:33 GMT
Wonky, They are two specific segments to CE certification if you like. Those that choose to self certify, in that the manufacturer of said product has 'Taken all due diligence" in the aspects of manufacturing of their products and tested it to the safety standards and they are confident it more than meets the required uniformity certification's concerning that product such as one being the LVD (low volt directive which covers all products Over 50Vac) along with others that are applicable to the said product their are manufacturing. THis is self certification. You can opt to have your product test at an approved CE testing facility where it is subjected to all of the tests that would be involved in the operation and safety aspects of that product, AS well as the testing a product and build manual must be produced as part of the approval process as is the CE marking symbol, style, size and font required as well. Small manufacturers CE approval costs are quite high, although they range from say £400 for a small portable audio device with limited emissions. They can go into many 10 of thousands. The amplifier we had UK certified recently (a small 100W solid state device) cost just over £3000 for the process which took around 10 weeks to complete. Now BOTH ways are perfectly legal, the difference is as my legal adviser points out. Self certification is there is a problem and someone is injured then the onus is on the manufacturer to demonstrate the product is safe. CE approval by a certified testing house and the onus is the insurance company / law to prove it was not safe Thanks for the response, but I am already aware of this. My question to SR was about British Standards too, as nobody had answered this point so I thought I would ask the manufacturer, even though it makes no difference to me personally. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2018 15:37:26 GMT
Hi Wonky
The BS standard is regarded as one of the best available, however it needs to have a minimum of a CE to conform.
I would agree the the manufacturer it would be beneficial if they responded to your question.
No axe to grind here from me either.
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Post by nrg on Feb 7, 2018 15:57:25 GMT
What, for devices covered under Part I of the safety regulations or are you referring to appliances covered under Part II which your amplifier would fall in to...
Part I covers plugs, sockets and fuses, it clearly states in the dti guide line document that:
“As the devices regulated by Part I are outside of the scope of Community Directives and the Regulations are national in origin in support of the General Product Safety Directive, the CE Marking is not to be used. Its use may constitute an offence under section 1 of the Trade Descriptions Act 1968.”
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Post by MikeMusic on Feb 7, 2018 16:41:41 GMT
I wonder if many customers are plainly too embarrassed and too well off to bother returning them if they hear little benefit. I have returned things that don't work and would not be embarrassed to return these, too. I'm just reporting it as I hear it. I was very surprised not to hear any difference between my Exposure speaker cables and Tellurium. Black and Ultra black They went back |
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Post by pinkie on Feb 7, 2018 17:23:15 GMT
I’ve now had time to listen to the copper replacement ‘fuses’. Im pretty well tuned into my setup as I’m sure you all are with yours, mine hasn’t change for about three years except for the odd turntable or three. I can detect differences in interconnects, cartridge VTF/VTA, valves etc. some changes are subtle some not so so I’m confident in my ability in detecting differences. I tried them in both my phono/preamp and power amp. And combinations of the two with a wide variety of music. I can honestly say I cannot hear any differences at all between the standard 13amp fuse and the copper rod. If there is a difference it’s well below my threshold of hearing or my gear is not resolving it or maybe the stars aren’t aligned for me. I’ll go for the latter. Anyhow, bottom line, I’m not investing, I’m out! Have fun! My experiences too. It appears I need to repeat this - although I have posted it once already in this thread When Wonky came round we substituted the following power leads on the AHB2 power amp (Martins suggestion of the component most likely to show up fuse effects)  20180207_181010 So, to labour the point, we changed this fuse  20180207_181027 For this fuse  20180207_181034And experienced exactly the same effect on the music as you have just reported. To be fair, on that occasion, we only had a quick listen - maybe played for half an hour, since it was a family day. Subsequently I have had a much more extensive listen, and changed all UK leads on the HiFi to Shucko's (for domestic rather than Foo reasons, but I took the opportunity to audition carefully) Exactly the same result as yours. Likewise I am not minded to invest in a superior fuse, when the great fuse advocates tell me that any fuse is a bottleneck, and therefore my Shuckos represent the ultimate fuse arrangement. Clearly I am deaf, and my equipment incapable of resolving fine detail. I remember reading countless reviews of it saying just that  I'll leave it to Wonky to tease me about my ability to hear the difference speaker cables make. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2018 17:33:26 GMT
I don’t need to tease you.
You heard it for yourself, but it was a pretty bad speaker cable in question.
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Post by scotty38 on Feb 7, 2018 18:59:23 GMT
No axe to grind here from me either. First post here and you may have no axe to grind but a vested interest in your dealers surely? |
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Post by MartinT on Feb 7, 2018 19:03:27 GMT
Welcome to TAS, Scotty. Not a good start for your first post, however.
How does anything Tony posted relate to his dealers?
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