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Post by MartinT on Nov 15, 2016 15:04:56 GMT
I found the NVA BMU good, the P10 better. Running the two together gave me no improvement over the P10 alone. The BMU is great value for money. The P10 gives me the best SQ I have had.
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Post by Sovereign on Nov 15, 2016 15:18:56 GMT
I think for £500 you can't really get a better unit I've not use one myself but like all NVA products I'm sure it sounds brilliant, and it looks quite smart to. However I'm sure that it will be pointed out to you very quickly by others, that it has no RCD protection. But NVA will tell you if you have a problem with your equipment it will trip the RCD on your consumer unit. Oh heck, have I just started up the circular debate again, oops 😂😂😂
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Post by MartinT on Nov 15, 2016 15:42:09 GMT
Frankly, I'm done with that. If I couldn't afford a P10, I would snatch up a BMU.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2016 17:03:31 GMT
If I bought a BMU, as I am plugging in class 1 equipment, I would buy the Airlink or similar with RCDs on the output. If I was running a full NVA system (Class 2} the BMU would be fine. You may think that a BMU is fine without RCDs, but I don't share that opinion.
Anyway, I have my plug tester....
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2016 17:53:59 GMT
Test 1 - Main RCD which is located on my distribution board (40A, 30mA) tripped at 20mA according to the plug tester. Test 2 - with extension lead, same result.
My radial circuit is fine.
No I just need to test the regenerator when it arrives.
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Post by MartinT on Nov 15, 2016 17:56:33 GMT
I had my radial RCD tested and certified when it was installed. It tripped as specified.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2016 18:15:37 GMT
I installed my new radial circuit. This is still legal in France. I was pretty sure it was safe, as it is not difficult to match wire colours, and previous experience working with a qualified electrician taught me all about the safety requirements etc.
The interesting thing is the radial is fed by a 16A, 40mA RCD but the lower level protection kicks in first, as it should.
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Post by ChrisB on Nov 15, 2016 18:49:14 GMT
I installed my new radial circuit. I was pretty sure it was safe, as it is not difficult to match wire colours. Whoah - STOP!You're concerned about electrical safety for yourself and others and you make a statement like that? If we're worried about setting people down a path of killing themselves with mains electricity, I think that one is rather irresponsible.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2016 18:59:36 GMT
Ok....
In France you are perfectly entitled to make modifications to an electrical circuit, or install new ones. Having worked helping a qualified electrician in my younger years, I think I know enough to select the correct size cable, appropriate sockets, switches etc. and perform a safe installation.
Funnily enough, the plug tester confirmed everything was wired correctly, and my 30mA RCD did exactly what it was supposed to.
What I am not sure of is the internal workings/circuit of the Regeneration unit I have purchased, and how it will interact in a French domestic circuit.
Thanks for the concern though.
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Post by ChrisB on Nov 15, 2016 19:08:37 GMT
Kevin, would you please edit your post in order to make it absolutely clear to anyone who might stumble upon those words and think it's OK for them to follow suit that: a) It is legal in the country where you live b) You were sufficiently trained and competent to carry out the work
Thank you.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2016 19:32:57 GMT
I have done as you requested. It seems insignificant compared to some of the other electrical related posts on this forum though.
As always, if in doubt, get a trained professional to perform the work still applies.
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Post by ChrisB on Nov 15, 2016 19:37:45 GMT
Insignificant? No I don't think so.
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Post by ChrisB on Nov 15, 2016 19:38:36 GMT
Thank you for the edit, by the way
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2016 19:41:24 GMT
Insignificant? No I don't think so. That is one point we will disagree on then.
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Post by Greg on Nov 15, 2016 20:17:51 GMT
The Airlink Transformers aren't bad at all as far as off the shelf units go. However in comparison to bespoke units they are found lacking. But then they are made to a price so that is totally understandable, and they are no better or worse than any other mainstrea and they are no better or worse than any other mainstream manufactured transformer. The ones that I buy are slightly more expensive but in my view the outcome was and justifies the slight increase in expenditure. However the transformers that I have made for my balance power supplies are a slightly different design altogether. I would challenge the view that Airlink TX's are found lacking. I have an Airlinks BPS and it works perfectly in my system bringing an overall improvement to sound. Furthermore, mine is a bespoke 2Kv version having been wound for a more realistic 240V instead of the standard 230V spec. Generally it is totally silent in operation. The only time it buzzes is when the amp is switched on with the corresponding current draw and peculiarly for a short while between 4:30 and 4:45pm every day. This must be something switching on outside of my property as it's nothing in my home. I have also introduced a DC blocker board on the input before the Tx. Airlinks TX's can't be that bad. NVA use them for their BMU!
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Post by Greg on Nov 15, 2016 20:33:10 GMT
I found the NVA BMU good, the P10 better. Running the two together gave me no improvement over the P10 alone. The BMU is great value for money. The P10 gives me the best SQ I have had. I don't agree for several reasons. The NVA BMU is excessively large for a 1.5Kv unit. This can present a problem for those of us domestically constrained to keep our kit as discreet as possible in the living room. I would suggest the overall construction (whilst safe) does not have the solidity of build of an Airlinks unit. Look inside an Airlinks and you will see a far more professional build IMHO, no doubt backed with years of production experience. Furthermore, an Airlinks will save you a considerable amount of money compared to the £500 for the NVA. To me it is a 'no brainer'. YMMV.
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Post by Sovereign on Nov 15, 2016 21:23:59 GMT
The Airlink Transformers aren't bad at all as far as off the shelf units go. However in comparison to bespoke units they are found lacking. But then they are made to a price so that is totally understandable, and they are no better or worse than any other mainstrea and they are no better or worse than any other mainstream manufactured transformer. The ones that I buy are slightly more expensive but in my view the outcome was and justifies the slight increase in expenditure. However the transformers that I have made for my balance power supplies are a slightly different design altogether. I would challenge the view that Airlink TX's are found lacking. I have an Airlinks BPS and it works perfectly in my system bringing an overall improvement to sound. Furthermore, mine is a bespoke 2Kv version having been wound for a more realistic 240V instead of the standard 230V spec. Generally it is totally silent in operation. The only time it buzzes is when the amp is switched on with the corresponding current draw and peculiarly for a short while between 4:30 and 4:45pm every day. This must be something switching on outside of my property as it's nothing in my home. I have also introduced a DC blocker board on the input before the Tx. Airlinks TX's can't be that bad. NVA use them for their BMU! Hi Greg, I would tend to agree with you. I said Airlink transformers aren't bad at all and similar to other mainstream manufacturers. It is only when it is compared to a bespoke transformer that is not mass produced and made to a price that you can tell the difference. I say this with some confidence as I have owned quite a few Airlink Transformers , also the company that make my bespoke transformers also make a lot of transformers for Airlink themselves when they can't handle demand, especially their balanced transformers. When they make transformers for Airlink they have to make them too Airlinks requirements and use their bill of materials which is inferior to what the company make for themselves .
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Post by MartinT on Nov 15, 2016 22:05:45 GMT
Good spot, Chris.
For the sake of clarity, you cannot install your own radial in the UK. It's illegal and it needs an expert with the right equipment. Part of the process involves testing for all fault conditions and creating the all-important electrical installation certificate. You will need it for when you sell the house.
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Post by BilliumB on Nov 16, 2016 4:06:15 GMT
My primary concern is my daughter and her safety. Every time I put a record on, she asks/demands to come upstairs. She is very inquisitive. If I had to box up the HiFi to keep her safe, then I would - no questions asked. Power Inspired have confirmed that the Regenerator will not mask a fault from an RCD, as the leakage to earth in the case of a fault will cause the RCD to trip. That is if the Regenerator does not shut down first.... It seems safe to me. Apparently, not all regeneration units do this. See my recent diagram Kevin. Its not specific to Balanced Power or Mains regenerators. RCD's can only detect faults on circuits physically connected to them. There will be no physical connection on the brown and blue wires coming out of your regenerator to the brown and blue wires running through the RCD's (I know the colours are different here in France, but you know...). A fault on the output of your power regenerator could no more trip the RCD on your consumer unit than it could mine - for the same reason - they are physically isolated. It's testable. linkrcd tester Conforama stock them. It's on my shopping list. I am assuming it connects a load at the plug between live and earth which runs a selectable current of less than 35ma and consequently trips the house RCD. That is the test you want. Something which when you plug it into the wall trips the actual RCD on the consumer unit, rather than lighting up an LED on the device to say "its good" The 2nd version - the "its ok light" I am buying in the UK on next week (because I can't find one under E300 in France). It DOESNT trip the house RCD's (because lets face it, its a pain when all the electrics go off and have to be reset). This is called an "earth loop impedance tester". What it does is send a tiny test current between live and earth and measure it - and from that it calculates the implied impedance between live and earth. The current is tiny enough not to trip the RCD's. But it works out the loop impedance. That is what all French sparkies plug in (that I have encountered). In the UK my sparkie client tells me that they do the test on the input side to the consumer unit. This is because we often have a lower impedance earth from the electricity supplier in the UK and so it doesnt muddle the measurement by measuring the impedance of the household wiring (a separate test). Here I guess they figure they are only trying to make sure the sum of the 2 impedances is below 100 ohm and so its perfectly acceptable to measure it at the socket. If you know what the supply impedance is (with my UK sparkies measurement) then you can work out the impedance just for that socket, and detect faulty sockets (detached earth wires etc). However, that will tell you the impedance between the live terminal and earth and not check that such a connection trips the RCD. It will read the same for a socket in the wall as it will for a socket on a transformer (BPS, regenerator , bog standard transformer). Because it is measuring the impedance between the live wire in that socket and earth - which is a "through earth". It is not checking that if you allow a current to flow between the socket live and earth that it will also cause a current to flow through the RCD live and earth. Well, obviously it wont - because the transformer isolates it. Be careful - not all tests are what they seem to be. For example - if I press the "test" button on the RCD on the consumer unit in my office, it trips that RCD. It doesn't trip the RCD at the main board in the house. (well, not yet it hasnt). I hope that tells me that the earth in my office has an impedance of less than the value needed to trip an RCD in spite of me building a patio over the earth spike, and that is why I am reasonably chilled about the French sparkie taking over a week to come out and test it for me properly. But that test should have caused a 30ma current to flow between live and earth in the office. That should have caused the same current to flow in the house on the main RCD. Of course - its a race to see who trips first, but to date the office one always wins. I have revised my illustration. Red is the earth loop impedance test, measuring Z between live on the secondary and earth. Note that is not the same thing as seeing what happens when a current flows through the green connection. The green connection will trip the RCD. The red one won't, although it may achieve (and should achieve) a result of Z<=100 ohms. Hi Richard Can I please suggest that at an impedance of less than 100 Ohm between Live and Earth would suggest a problem in the wiring - do you perhaps mean the Earth Loop Impedance test to be between Neutral and Earth? Cheers. Bill
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2016 7:46:46 GMT
Good spot, Chris. For the sake of clarity, you cannot install your own radial in the UK. It's illegal and it needs an expert with the right equipment. Part of the process involves testing for all fault conditions and creating the all-important electrical installation certificate. You will need it for when you sell the house. You can install the circuit yourself (as long as you are competent) but you need it tested and certified by a registered electrician before you use it, to ensure that it complies with Part P of the building regulations. Failure to do so is a criminal offence.
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