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Post by MartinT on Aug 20, 2016 14:04:55 GMT
It's not secured yet, but it looks like we're finally going to get our hands on a converted barn with annex. The annex, currently an office and wine store, will become my new listening room. It's a decent size but with a somewhat low ceiling which I can just touch. The dimensions are 6.2 x 5.4m. The first problem is the floor, which is tiled. I have a dilemma: do I carpet over the tiles which, together with underlay, is going to lower the height of the room even further, or do I remove the tiles? What is likely to be underneath? I assume concrete. I'm intending to throw across the width, which I've always found to sound best. So the system will go against the wall where the wine racks are at the moment and the listening position will be in front of (draped) patio/barn (double) doors. One thing which is very handy - the electrical installation is in a cupboard at the right-hand end of the room, which means that power should be clean and on a ring dedicated to the room. I'll get that checked out in due course and will, of course, replace the master socket feeding the system. Any flooring experts here?
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Post by ChrisB on Aug 20, 2016 14:29:11 GMT
This doesn't answer your question, but what's above that ceiling Martin - do you know? There could be some space up there to give you some more height.
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Post by MartinT on Aug 20, 2016 14:34:10 GMT
I'm going to check: if it's suspended then I'll take it all down. Maybe the downlighters are a clue? There is another floor upstairs, which is currently a children's play area.
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Post by julesd68 on Aug 20, 2016 14:38:07 GMT
Any flooring experts here? Nope, but happy to help with the wine!
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Post by ChrisB on Aug 20, 2016 14:38:41 GMT
Yes, it was the lights that made me wonder. You'll be moving all that wine upstairs then, they surely won't be taking that with them will they?!
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Post by zippy on Aug 20, 2016 15:23:38 GMT
When I first moved into my house I spent many (un)happy hours removing horrible pink and patterned floor tiles, and I wouldn't want to do it again - it's one heck of a hassle especially getting the floor clean and level afterwards (the tiles didn't want to come up cleanly).
You tiles look pretty good to me, so I'd go for the 'carpet over' approach.
At least you'll be able to spike your speakers through the carpet into a solid floor.
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Post by Slinger on Aug 20, 2016 15:26:12 GMT
I can't believe that no-one has asked the most important question yet. Is the plonk included in the price?
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Post by pinkie on Aug 20, 2016 15:59:52 GMT
I can't see any merit in removing tiles for maybe 10mm of ceiling height. How does it sound at the moment? Our new living room looks a shocker but is in fact perhaps the best listening room I've known (it has a hidden secret - thick insulation under floor, in wall and above the ceiling) The advice we have had a hundred times here in the new house is "live in it a while before you change anything" - and its good advice. Try it first - maybe use some portable room treatment. And either something under or around the speakers - or, really radical this for a boy bought up on spikes - try some SVS subwoofer isolation kits. Just fitted to my sub here (the ESL's are on stands that are happy going straight onto the fake laminate flooring) - and I am quite taken. I'll keep my peace about mains noise not travelling across circuits on a consumer board, but spend the evening wondering how home plugs connect my ethernet on different , quite separate , radial circuits here. Good luck with the move - they say its one of the most stressful things, and if you are ever potty enough to do it in France, it is THE most stressful - but worth it when its done. I would have sent a bottle, but it would be coals to Newcastle
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Post by MartinT on Aug 20, 2016 16:18:25 GMT
LOL guys, the wine is not included. There are some nice German reds among that lot, too. Hard to get in this country.
It's not just about gaining 10cm in height, it's about removing a potentially resonant air space, too.
I tend to agree that removing the floor tiles could be quite a buggerance!
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Post by MartinT on Aug 20, 2016 16:21:07 GMT
Oh, forgot: how does it sound? Haven't a clue, but it passes the finger snapping test better than my current room when empty. Quite a lot less flutter echo, which causes smearing of musical detail.
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Post by MikeMusic on Aug 21, 2016 8:14:56 GMT
I always go with the suck it and see first.
How do you feel about the tiles ? Is there underfloor heating ? How about large rugs ? Ceiling sounds the same height as mine. Would prefer mine a little higher but happy as is.
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Post by pinkie on Aug 21, 2016 8:18:04 GMT
I always go with the suck it and see first. How do you feel about the tiles ? Is there underfloor heating ? How about large rugs ? Ceiling sounds the same height as mine. Would prefer mine a little higher but happy as is. With apologies for thread drift - what is the dog in your Avatar Mike? There is a fairly mature puppy, last of the litter, now looking very bored and lonely, that we have to drive past every day, and I could imagine him growing into something like your fella
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Post by MikeMusic on Aug 21, 2016 8:21:25 GMT
Never a problem to talk about my little Freddie. Sadly passed on many years ago. He was a fabulous puppy and was with me until 14 years old Miniature Wire Haired Dachshund <later> Bear in mind puppies are 50% pain. How about a rescue ? We currently have just the 6
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Post by jandl100 on Aug 21, 2016 8:25:32 GMT
Just a few random thoughts based on my own experiences over the years ...
- are you sure that you both want you to be off in a separate annex when listening to music? It can kind of turn it into a solitary experience when you are on your own and not sharing the tunes. Wifey and I have discussed this in the past and she was dead set against it.
- I'd be wary of the low ceiling and its effect on the sound, although I struggle to recall ever having heard one! I just have a bad feeling about it. I agree that the ~1cm tile depth is neither here nor there. What about the kids play area above - might that be a better listening space? - might be worth trying although I fully appreciate that moving your speakers from floor to floor will be a daunting experience!
- the wine cellar is about 20x18 feet (sorry, I still think in feet when it comes to room sizes!) - good size, I used to have a 19x16 foot room and that was great. Might be a bit too square for comfort with room resonances so some judicious treatment might help. I wouldn't want to go much bigger because of reverberation effects. Music systems in bigger rooms than that get all swimmy and ill-defined to my ears.
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Post by MartinT on Aug 21, 2016 10:01:36 GMT
I always go with the suck it and see first. How do you feel about the tiles ? Is there underfloor heating ? How about large rugs ? Ceiling sounds the same height as mine. Would prefer mine a little higher but happy as is. The main barn has underfloor heating, but I don't think this annex has. I'm coming around to leaving the floor tiles alone and removing that awful office ceiling. Large rugs are possible, but I prefer a full carpet to absorb more and reflect less.
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Post by MartinT on Aug 21, 2016 10:32:43 GMT
- are you sure that you both want you to be off in a separate annex when listening to music? It can kind of turn it into a solitary experience when you are on your own and not sharing the tunes. Wifey and I have discussed this in the past and she was dead set against it. - I'd be wary of the low ceiling and its effect on the sound, although I struggle to recall ever having heard one! I just have a bad feeling about it. I agree that the ~1cm tile depth is neither here nor there. What about the kids play area above - might that be a better listening space? - might be worth trying although I fully appreciate that moving your speakers from floor to floor will be a daunting experience! - the wine cellar is about 20x18 feet (sorry, I still think in feet when it comes to room sizes!) - good size, I used to have a 19x16 foot room and that was great. Might be a bit too square for comfort with room resonances so some judicious treatment might help. I wouldn't want to go much bigger because of reverberation effects. Music systems in bigger rooms than that get all swimmy and ill-defined to my ears. Some great points, Jerry. - Yes, I have thought about that. There isn't a room at ground level in the main barn that I could use; I'm not sharing the sitting room with the TV, been there, done that, disastrous. I began to get very resentful in my previous marriage finding the ex watching Eastenders (vomit) or a teenager watching something else, precluding me from playing music. Also, I hope that Ruth will join me often for music and a glass of wine. Finally, I don't want to disturb others when having a session. - The low ceiling does worry me. As I said above, I think I will leave the floor tiles alone as I would barely gain 1cm. The ceiling looks more promising, possibly yielding 10cm or so. The upstairs is roof-shaped and quite a lot smaller. It would require firing down the length of the room and the speakers would be close together. It would also have big heavy speakers on floor boards. But the killer is that there would be no way in hell to get them up the narrow stairs. - I think the dimensions are ideal and it gives me hope for good sound. I will be bringing my full armament of acoustic treatment with me: 5 TubeTraps, SubTrap, 3 PicturePanels and a GFK panel. I will buy heavy drapes to cover the two sets of patio doors behind. That gives me flexibility in treating the room by experimentation.
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Post by jandl100 on Aug 21, 2016 11:10:07 GMT
... I totally agree about the need for a dedicated music room! It was just the being in a separate building aspect that my wife didn't like. She has her 'den' with a TV, I have mine with my music system - 2 separate living rooms for doing our independent things. And then we have a conservatory which acts as a shared living room and for when we have visitors.
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Post by zippy on Aug 21, 2016 11:48:36 GMT
... I totally agree about the need for a dedicated music room! It was just the being in a separate building aspect that my wife didn't like. She has her 'den' with a TV, I have mine with my music system - 2 separate living rooms for doing our independent things. And then we have a conservatory which acts as a shared living room and for when we have visitors. That's the way to go, and I have similar - the lounge has the main hifi and 'big' TV for when I listen, or we both listen or watch. I then have a second room with lowlier hifi and smaller TV, mostly for the times when the wife doesn't want to listen to music - it's a quiet room too so she can sit and read (which is her main passion).
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Post by Tim on Aug 21, 2016 12:14:54 GMT
Easy solution, don't have a TV Martin
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Post by MartinT on Aug 21, 2016 12:26:37 GMT
There will not be a TV in my listening room, Tim.
However, we'll have our Sky setup in the sitting room. I shall make use of my spare Gale speakers for TV sound duty.
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