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Post by ChrisB on Aug 2, 2016 20:15:11 GMT
I've never felt the need to invest in a subwoofer. Some people swear by them.
What are your thoughts? - good, bad, pros, cons.
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Post by John on Aug 2, 2016 21:17:05 GMT
I heard a few sometimes they work well
When I had Silverline SR17 I nearly went down that route Created a really good sound but went down a different route (Wharfedale Opus 3)
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Post by davidf on Aug 2, 2016 23:17:56 GMT
Done properly they can be advantageous. Although, there's still something about a "full range" speaker that just sounds right in comparison to a sub.
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Post by John on Aug 3, 2016 4:10:46 GMT
Biggest issue is getting the timing right if you can time align this works well but then means a active approach
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Post by jandl100 on Aug 3, 2016 7:39:24 GMT
I've used them successfully in the past, but (I know this sounds daft) they go too low for me. Even small ones often hit 20Hz quite comfortably, and I don't find that very comfortable. I tend not to be in to bass-led music, unlike most folks here I suspect, and it's a bit of a distraction for me.
Paired with a small speaker they can, occasionally, work magic. The pairing of a pair of Rogers LS3/5a with a BK200 sub was simply made in heaven. Kept the LS3/5a magic but simply upped the dynamic performance pretty much beyond recognition. That was the ultimate sub-success story for me.
Way back, I owned one of the first REL big subs - awesome on movies like Independence Day but fairly irrelevant for me musically.
I prefer a good pair of full-range speakers. My MBLs don't need a sub as far as I am concerned.
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Post by MartinT on Aug 3, 2016 8:42:55 GMT
I prefer full range speakers, but only if they can reach the lowest organ pedal notes comfortably, which means being able to make a fist of 16Hz even if well down on level. This eliminates most small floorstanders.
A good sub can work wonders if you take the time to integrate it well. This means levels way down on what some AV punters would set - you should never be aware of the sub working most of the time. I had a big REL Studio II supplementing my JM Lab Mezzo Utopias and the combination worked really well. There was no problem with room-shaking 16Hz pedals!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2016 12:36:44 GMT
Yeh Martin i was gonna say i bought one of those REL 'Strata' Subs when they first came out. They were great..
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2016 12:47:23 GMT
A good quality sub with correct time and x/over alignment and you understand how to properly integrated can pay dividends.
I normally prefer a full range speaker, however not many that can genuinely reproduce sub 25Hz correctly in room without costing two kidneys!
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Post by daytona600 on Aug 3, 2016 16:59:14 GMT
Never liked subwoofery myself - class D amps & ported boxes great for explosions but not for music just installed a pair of Rel Gibralter G1s feed from external X/over of my active Stats below 35hz Class AB Amps & sealed boxes & must admit these really work once dialled in deep , fast & tuneful Bach & Srillex & King Tubby if you turn up the wick is huge fun or if you are Mad try a Six Pack cdn.stereophile.com/images/styles/600_wide/public/010916-REL_6pack-600.jpg?itok=HSdggs3l |
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Coops
Rank: Soloist
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Post by Coops on Aug 3, 2016 18:05:04 GMT
Subs can be fantastic once properly integrated, try using a MiniDSP- processor and one of their software plugins, decide at which frequency the main speakers should stop and where the sub takes over ,correct phase,delay and you have an absolutely seamless system, you can even use the other 'half' of the function to EQ your room if the new lower bass is causing any standing wave issues.
Keith
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Post by daytona600 on Aug 3, 2016 18:11:55 GMT
these are good as well
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Coops
Rank: Soloist
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Post by Coops on Aug 3, 2016 18:17:02 GMT
The MiniDSP- processors start at around £100 , you really also need a microphone to determine where your main speakers start to roll off, and to perform the measurement from the listening seat.
Keith
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Post by John on Aug 3, 2016 19:50:40 GMT
I liked the idea of auto EQ |
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Post by Paul Barker on Aug 7, 2016 7:17:49 GMT
I put a sub so quiet you don't think you can hear it. People always have them too loud. Its like the top end. You can't hear a super tweeter unless you go right up to it and still have sufficient hearing ability. Use a sub same way. The overall result improves your experience, but the individual extremes are not discernable is where My listening experience is enriched.
That may not be a level 20:20k, nothing else in the room will be level, why should the extremes be level? Tune it until the sound enriches your experience. Unless it does, remove it.
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Post by Paul Barker on Aug 7, 2016 7:22:17 GMT
Oh, and when I can tell that my neighbours beneath me are in, I switch off the sub.
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Post by Paul Barker on Aug 7, 2016 7:26:58 GMT
Some people's "full range" speakers have too much bass or a hump in the bass which dominates the experience. At first it is a positive. "wow you have great bass" you tell them. After an evening it is dawning on you, no its too much and in the wrong places. They worked so hard to make sure they could hear the truck rumbling past on one of the dsotm tracks. Forget which one, they ruined all their music to reach that one pointless limited goal. And they have no respect for their neighbours.
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Post by Paul Barker on Aug 7, 2016 7:36:30 GMT
Bruce Edgar's room at vsac was the best. Just fantastic in every respect. Best bass I heard outside Westminster Cathedral.
But before I went into the room, I went into the rooms either side. I kept hearing this great bass from somewhere, though at that distance you just hear the bass. It ruined the experience in the adjacent rooms. If I was a neighbour to that bass my whole life would be ruined by it.
In Westminster Cathedral will the Nave long enough for the bass wave, with thick stone walls and a large open patio location, it is entirely appropriate to play those bass notes on the analogue organ.
Doesn't mean you need it in your domestic setting.
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Coops
Rank: Soloist
Posts: 21
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Post by Coops on Aug 7, 2016 10:59:23 GMT
If you take the time to properly integrate your sub, using something like a MiniDSP- processor the sub becomes just another perfectly integrated driver, you can adjust phase and delay , crossover type and order .
Then if the added bass extension causes problems in your room you can use the same piece of software to EQ any resonant peaks, the result will be full range system with no bass overhang no 'boom'.
Keith
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Post by John on Aug 7, 2016 11:23:16 GMT
I guess in some ways you could look at the bass in my system as being a subwoofer. Using a FAST (fullrange assisted subwoofer technology approach). It has it own separate amp with DSP and I find it works well for me It means I have no crossovers in the speakers
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Post by speedysteve on Aug 7, 2016 12:56:43 GMT
Sub woofers - yes, but only horn loaded ones for me!
That makes then BIG and Efficient.
So no AV boom boxes.
From experience nothing else would integrate properly = be fast enough.
I started without DSP but it makes it much easier and gives miles better results / bang for buck.
Time alignment is a good thing to do too.
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