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Post by julesd68 on Oct 9, 2020 14:56:26 GMT
I do love that as a performance as you know Martin, but on both vinyl and streaming I find the recording a little too 'forward' for my preference - I can't get carried away with cranking the volume on it! I get what you say Jules. I’m listening to it at the moment. It has more bite than many versions. The 300Bs I have in play currently are probably a good foil for the balance. ‘Tis good. Yes I can imagine the 300b's are just the job to tame it a little! |
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Post by speedysteve on Oct 9, 2020 15:41:51 GMT
Nice! Did you take any pics of the church? No, I was just calling in on the way to getting my passport updated. No phone cameras back then 😉 |
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Post by ajski2fly on Oct 12, 2020 14:52:21 GMT
This arrived today, it was recommended to me, very lucky NM find at a sensible price from Canada. Particularly enjoyed this rendition and an excellent recording. The dynamics and openness of the recording gives a great sense of air to the piece, if that is the right way to describe it. The playing also gives a very good feeling of flow to the piece as a whole. I particularly like the dynamic differentiation between the high register instruments and the lower registers, note always as evident on other recordings. I would thoroughly recommend this recording and I think it is likely to become a favourite of mine. I noticed CD copies are rather more affordable, but not many about. Antonio Vivaldi, Nils-Erik Sparf, The Drottningholm Baroque Ensemble* – The Four Seasons Label:BIS – LP-275, BIS – BIS-LP-275 Format: Vinyl, LP, Album, DMM Country:Sweden Released: Jan 1985 :format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-5532611-1395807374-4137.jpeg.jpg) |
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Post by MartinT on Oct 12, 2020 15:19:57 GMT
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Post by speedysteve on Oct 12, 2020 16:18:54 GMT
This girl does a better job than Dave Mustaine LOL I liked this. She keeps up pretty well. The Drottningholm Baroque Ensemble is faster to my ears. Physical distance of guitar fret Vs violin etc? |
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Post by speedysteve on Oct 12, 2020 16:20:26 GMT
This arrived today, it was recommended to me, very lucky NM find at a sensible price from Canada. Particularly enjoyed this rendition and an excellent recording. The dynamics and openness of the recording gives a great sense of air to the piece, if that is the right way to describe it. The playing also gives a very good feeling of flow to the piece as a whole. I particularly like the dynamic differentiation between the high register instruments and the lower registers, note always as evident on other recordings. I would thoroughly recommend this recording and I think it is likely to become a favourite of mine. I noticed CD copies are rather more affordable, but not many about. Antonio Vivaldi, Nils-Erik Sparf, The Drottningholm Baroque Ensemble* – The Four Seasons Label:BIS – LP-275, BIS – BIS-LP-275 Format: Vinyl, LP, Album, DMM Country:Sweden Released: Jan 1985 That's the same cover as on cd version I have had for 'gulp' many years now 👍 How does your needle handle the very deep bass of the church organ on track 10 winter? Is it toned down, not very audible? I know that cartridges don't do much below 35Hz or they'd just pick up deck rumble, and of course not every pair of speakers can reproduce church organ freqs with any significant dB. I've only ever heard digital versions. |
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Post by ajski2fly on Oct 12, 2020 16:55:26 GMT
This arrived today, it was recommended to me, very lucky NM find at a sensible price from Canada. Particularly enjoyed this rendition and an excellent recording. The dynamics and openness of the recording gives a great sense of air to the piece, if that is the right way to describe it. The playing also gives a very good feeling of flow to the piece as a whole. I particularly like the dynamic differentiation between the high register instruments and the lower registers, note always as evident on other recordings. I would thoroughly recommend this recording and I think it is likely to become a favourite of mine. I noticed CD copies are rather more affordable, but not many about. Antonio Vivaldi, Nils-Erik Sparf, The Drottningholm Baroque Ensemble* – The Four Seasons Label:BIS – LP-275, BIS – BIS-LP-275 Format: Vinyl, LP, Album, DMM Country:Sweden Released: Jan 1985 That's the same cover as on cd version I have had for 'gulp' many years now 👍 How does your needle handle the very deep bass of the church organ on track 10 winter? Is it toned down, not very audible? I know that cartridges don't do much below 35Hz or they'd just pick up deck rumble, and of course not every pair of speakers can reproduce church organ freqs with any significant dB. I've only ever heard digital versions. Hi Steve, The Organ is not an issue, my speakers do go down to 36hz and yes I can hear the notes. Don't take this the wrong way but I thing you may not fully appreciate how record reproduction works. I will try and explain, in simple terms the low end bass notes are at the top of the groove, the widest point, and the high frequencies are in the trough, the groove is essentially V shaped. If you tried to cut a record directly from a microphone recording say 50hz then the groove would have to be ridiculously wide to and the needle would be unable to follow it. So here we now have the clever bit called equalisation, all modern records from I think 1959 use RIAA equalisation as the standard, before this there were several others. see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIAA_equalization and this is quite a good explanation of cutting a record www.furnacemfg.com/vinyl-record-audio-preparation/ so 7hz to 50hz is possible. So to answer your question on my cartridge handling low frequency notes, it definitely does, as most good cartridges do and are designed to do so, here is a good article on how this is measured and highlights some issues, in case you are interested,  www.hi-fiworld.co.uk/vinyl-lp/70-tests/103-cartridge-tests.html?showall=1 My Benz Micro LP-S actually came with a printed frequency response measurement from when it was tested at the factory and it shows it goes down pretty low if I remember correct, certainly 20hz. I you think about it playing a record and how the music is a pretty amazing thing, which underwent 50+ years of development. I am not sure I agree with you about deck rumble and cartridges, in my experience deck rumble is a symptom of a poor platter bearing and non-effective isolation of it from the platter, this can be made worse by the plinth acting as a sound board in poor cheap turntables. Luckily nowadays due to modern material and improved engineering even relatively cheap turntable do not suffer from this so much. A £200-300 Rega or Project TT can give very good results without much rumble.  |
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Post by speedysteve on Oct 12, 2020 18:45:06 GMT
That's the same cover as on cd version I have had for 'gulp' many years now 👍 How does your needle handle the very deep bass of the church organ on track 10 winter? Is it toned down, not very audible? I know that cartridges don't do much below 35Hz or they'd just pick up deck rumble, and of course not every pair of speakers can reproduce church organ freqs with any significant dB. I've only ever heard digital versions. Hi Steve, The Organ is not an issue, my speakers do go down to 36hz and yes I can hear the notes. Don't take this the wrong way but I thing you may not fully appreciate how record reproduction works. I will try and explain, in simple terms the low end bass notes are at the top of the groove, the widest point, and the high frequencies are in the trough, the groove is essentially V shaped. If you tried to cut a record directly from a microphone recording say 50hz then the groove would have to be ridiculously wide to and the needle would be unable to follow it. So here we now have the clever bit called equalisation, all modern records from I think 1959 use RIAA equalisation as the standard, before this there were several others. see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIAA_equalization and this is quite a good explanation of cutting a record www.furnacemfg.com/vinyl-record-audio-preparation/ so 7hz to 50hz is possible. So to answer your question on my cartridge handling low frequency notes, it definitely does, as most good cartridges do and are designed to do so, here is a good article on how this is measured and highlights some issues, in case you are interested, www.hi-fiworld.co.uk/vinyl-lp/70-tests/103-cartridge-tests.html?showall=1 My Benz Micro LP-S actually came with a printed frequency response measurement from when it was tested at the factory and it shows it goes down pretty low if I remember correct, certainly 20hz. I you think about it playing a record and how the music is a pretty amazing thing, which underwent 50+ years of development. I am not sure I agree with you about deck rumble and cartridges, in my experience deck rumble is a symptom of a poor platter bearing and non-effective isolation of it from the platter, this can be made worse by the plinth acting as a sound board in poor cheap turntables. Luckily nowadays due to modern material and improved engineering even relatively cheap turntable do not suffer from this so much. A £200-300 Rega or Project TT can give very good results without much rumble. Perhaps you took offence at the word needle - I also have a needle. Have had many TT and cartridges over the years. I can only relate that my Technics SP-10 and SPU Royal N cartridge are not capable of the same deep bass reproduction as a piece recorded and mixed for digital playback. Can't be done. Not sure if true, but I've read the needle would jump clean out of the groove if it was attempted. Anyway, enjoy your system and that piece of music that has been very dear to me, since it's release. |
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Post by ajski2fly on Oct 12, 2020 18:54:08 GMT
No sorry if my reply came across as if I took offence, a needle was what it was called I believe in the beginning of TTs although some find this wrong and only accept stylus, whatever.
I tend to try and be factual, I am surprised your cartridges won’t reproduce down at that level, maybe I am missing some understanding?
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Post by speedysteve on Oct 12, 2020 18:59:50 GMT
No sorry if my reply came across as if I took offence, a needle was what it was called I believe in the beginning of TTs although some find this wrong and only accept stylus, whatever. I tend to try and be factual, I am surprised your cartridges won’t reproduce down at that level, maybe I am missing some understanding? Hmm, They do bass but not the room involving sub bass (like church organ etc) that the digital will do. |
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Post by ajski2fly on Oct 12, 2020 19:06:23 GMT
Do you use a sub woofer?
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Post by julesd68 on Oct 12, 2020 19:32:24 GMT
I think my NM copy of that album came from Canada too ...
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Post by speedysteve on Oct 12, 2020 21:14:24 GMT
No, well yes - 2 x tapped horn sub bass cabs for the deep bass channel. |
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Post by julesd68 on Oct 13, 2020 0:39:12 GMT
No, well yes - 2 x tapped horn sub bass cabs for the deep bass channel. Do you know the Saint Saens Organ Concerto? I expect it would be a lot of fun on your system ... |
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Post by MartinT on Oct 13, 2020 6:43:58 GMT
Do you know the Saint Saens Organ Concerto? I expect it would be a lot of fun on your system ... It's a lot of fun on mine! |
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Post by ajski2fly on Oct 13, 2020 7:33:16 GMT
Hi Steve, The Organ is not an issue, my speakers do go down to 36hz and yes I can hear the notes. Don't take this the wrong way but I thing you may not fully appreciate how record reproduction works. I will try and explain, in simple terms the low end bass notes are at the top of the groove, the widest point, and the high frequencies are in the trough, the groove is essentially V shaped. If you tried to cut a record directly from a microphone recording say 50hz then the groove would have to be ridiculously wide to and the needle would be unable to follow it. So here we now have the clever bit called equalisation, all modern records from I think 1959 use RIAA equalisation as the standard, before this there were several others. see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIAA_equalization and this is quite a good explanation of cutting a record www.furnacemfg.com/vinyl-record-audio-preparation/ so 7hz to 50hz is possible. So to answer your question on my cartridge handling low frequency notes, it definitely does, as most good cartridges do and are designed to do so, here is a good article on how this is measured and highlights some issues, in case you are interested, www.hi-fiworld.co.uk/vinyl-lp/70-tests/103-cartridge-tests.html?showall=1 My Benz Micro LP-S actually came with a printed frequency response measurement from when it was tested at the factory and it shows it goes down pretty low if I remember correct, certainly 20hz. I you think about it playing a record and how the music is a pretty amazing thing, which underwent 50+ years of development. I am not sure I agree with you about deck rumble and cartridges, in my experience deck rumble is a symptom of a poor platter bearing and non-effective isolation of it from the platter, this can be made worse by the plinth acting as a sound board in poor cheap turntables. Luckily nowadays due to modern material and improved engineering even relatively cheap turntable do not suffer from this so much. A £200-300 Rega or Project TT can give very good results without much rumble. Perhaps you took offence at the word needle - I also have a needle. Have had many TT and cartridges over the years. I can only relate that my Technics SP-10 and SPU Royal N cartridge are not capable of the same deep bass reproduction as a piece recorded and mixed for digital playback. Can't be done. Not sure if true, but I've read the needle would jump clean out of the groove if it was attempted. Anyway, enjoy your system and that piece of music that has been very dear to me, since it's release. Hi Steve, I have just looked at the specs for Ortofon SPUs and they all start at 20hz, the nude ellipticals go up to 20khz and the rest 15hz, so yours should produce bass. Not sure if this applies to Ortofon SPUs but quite a few of their cartridges can be quite fussy about VTA being right. I have a Rondo Blue and initially thought it a little bright, when I checked I found the arm was up at the rear, I gradually lowered it by about just under 1mm and the bass became more pronounced and defined, I tried slight lower but very quickly the bass became overblown and the top end clarity went. Just a thought that might be worth checking. Another aspect that I believe can come into play with getting good bass is the turntables platter. I know Technics TTs are well thought of but I have absolutely no idea of how it fairs on bass depth and control. I think I am correct in saying that is why there are a plethora of TT mats to try and improve focus and bass for some TTs. One dealer told me that to get good bass and what he called blackness (dynamic range depth) then a heavy platter is really needed. My Projects platter weighs in at 12kg so it is substantial so if this is correct could be why I experience great bass if it is on the record. |
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Post by ajski2fly on Oct 13, 2020 7:35:29 GMT
No, well yes - 2 x tapped horn sub bass cabs for the deep bass channel. Do you know the Saint Saens Organ Concerto? I expect it would be a lot of fun on your system ... Hi, I will have a look for it, can you recommend a particular recording. I do have Saint Saens - Danse Macarbe which I like from a young age. |
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Post by MartinT on Oct 13, 2020 7:47:19 GMT
This one if you could find it anywhere. Superb performance and sound. :format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-13402593-1553526380-5688.jpeg.jpg) |
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Post by ajski2fly on Oct 13, 2020 8:19:47 GMT
This one if you could find it anywhere. Superb performance and sound. Thanks I will have a search👍🙂 |
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Post by julesd68 on Oct 13, 2020 10:42:11 GMT
This is a classic recording I have on vinyl. :format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-8899430-1471076959-1473.jpeg.jpg) |
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