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Post by MartinT on Sept 5, 2016 19:22:36 GMT
I thought Daimler-Benz had been recruited to help them with the clutch problems?
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Post by robbiegong on Sept 5, 2016 21:08:06 GMT
It's plain daft and shouldn't be happening at this level. To potentially lose an F1 title like this would be ridiculous.
The problem should have been sorted long ago.
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Post by stanleyb on Sept 5, 2016 21:58:50 GMT
I don't know how the Merc clutch works on their F1 cars, and I am no expert on clutches. But I do know a thing or two about how the clutch can misbehave in a turbo powered car. Both Lewis and Nico have reported that they experienced too much wheel spin when they released the clutch, which in turn meant that their car ended up moving slower off the line. The problem gets worse if you wind up the revs and then let the clutch go. In a road going car you might find the inclusion of a Limited Slip Differential to counter act this. There are a couple of special tricks that you can perform to counter act the wheel spin and still pull away cleanly. Nico seems to have mastered one or more of these tricks, whilst Lewis is still trying to find one that works for him. I don't think he is getting the right feel for the turbo spool up versus wheel spin effective window.
But many old time SAAB driver will tell you the story about the old lady in her Hyundai or Nissan 1.1L car who once beat them off the line after they got the revs far too low or far too high before they dropped the clutch. The Porsche guys are far too embarrassed to recount those occasions.
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Post by Clive on Sept 5, 2016 22:24:15 GMT
Could this be the reason Nico was in the "wrong" engine mode before their famous coming together?
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Post by MartinT on Sept 6, 2016 5:13:03 GMT
The Rover 620ti I used to have was a menace in that respect, Stan. It had a Torsen LSD and, if you got the turbo spool-up wrong, it would simply pull away in a series of embarrassing jumps.
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Post by robbiegong on Sept 6, 2016 8:02:38 GMT
I don't know how the Merc clutch works on their F1 cars, and I am no expert on clutches. But I do know a thing or two about how the clutch can misbehave in a turbo powered car. Both Lewis and Nico have reported that they experienced too much wheel spin when they released the clutch, which in turn meant that their car ended up moving slower off the line. The problem gets worse if you wind up the revs and then let the clutch go. In a road going car you might find the inclusion of a Limited Slip Differential to counter act this. There are a couple of special tricks that you can perform to counter act the wheel spin and still pull away cleanly. Nico seems to have mastered one or more of these tricks, whilst Lewis is still trying to find one that works for him. I don't think he is getting the right feel for the turbo spool up versus wheel spin effective window. But many old time SAAB driver will tell you the story about the old lady in her Hyundai or Nissan 1.1L car who once beat them off the line after they got the revs far too low or far too high before they dropped the clutch. The Porsche guys are far too embarrassed to recount those occasions. Insighful Stan. He needs to sort it immediately that's for sure, or kiss the title good bye, it's that serious. He's played it down in the past but I've absolutely no doubt that it will be a genuine worry to him right now. He says they and the engineers will be discussing it as a priority I bet today at the race debrief. Heaven knows how many potential points it has cost him including a shunt since the issue first appeared. On the back of the superb weekend he had the win was guaranteed if he'd got off the line, which would have took his 9 points lead going into the race to 16. Instead he's down to just 2 points clear. Now that's costly, just one race and all for just not getting off the line - not good. The other thing is that it has become or is now perceived as a weakness and become the clear point of attack from P2 AND second row - added pressure and increased potential for turn one shuntage out of usual position jostle. Bottom line is, all this has made things very hard, ive been worried about the start thing from its onset. Lewis is a naturally more gifted driver than Rosberg in most people's view and Rosberg wouldn't win the title IF this wasn't happening. I believe if Rosberg bags it it will be because of Lewis beating himself not because of Rosberg being genuinely better and that's with all things considered. |
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Post by robbiegong on Sept 16, 2016 8:24:06 GMT
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Post by pre65 on Sept 16, 2016 11:06:54 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2016 16:57:13 GMT
Ross would be mine too, he'd be superb. If it were Martin, it could be interesting for Ron Dennis who basically booted him out of McLaren after treating him as his protege in the early days! |
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Post by MartinT on Sept 16, 2016 20:12:25 GMT
Yes, I'd go for Ross Brawn, too. Whitmarsh may not be a bad choice, though.
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Post by kettlechips on Sept 18, 2016 10:00:55 GMT
Seb's starting from last, but with a new engine and gearbox, and fresh tyres as he didn't use up all his sets in qualifying. He's sounding quite confident of a good result, that should be interesting. I'm no Ferrari fan, but It would be nice to see him charge through the field and overtake people.
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Post by davidf on Sept 18, 2016 10:51:50 GMT
Rosberg should have this in the bag - if he loses this, it'll be another race lost through lack of "the necessary". A win for Hamilton here today would be a massive boost for him, and a nice kick in the teeth for Rosberg. I don't even mind if Hamilton doesn't win, as long as Rosberg doesn't.
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Post by davidf on Sept 18, 2016 14:14:30 GMT
Lucky boy!
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Post by MartinT on Sept 18, 2016 14:52:59 GMT
Damage limitation from Lewis today. What a shame Daniel didn't have one more lap to take on Rosberg. And didn't Kvyat do well keeping Verstappen behind him for so many laps!
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Post by robbiegong on Sept 18, 2016 20:46:34 GMT
Respect to Rosberg who produced a fab quali and nailed the win... and that's coming from a big Hamilton fan.Now come on Lewis,back to your unbeatable, battling best or wave goodbye to the title!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2016 16:54:30 GMT
I'm starting to get a bit sus. Everyone on here I've spoken to will know that I'm a Lewis fan and have been since before he came in F1 and I've never liked Rosberg, he's smug, entitled, rude and a cheat, but something is up this year IMHO.
Is it that Mercedes got such a hassle from the fans, FIA, Bernie and the media last year that they've decided to mix it up this year? They'd have the power to do it.
Prior to Qualifying, Lewis again was hit by reliability issues which at Singapore is really significant as we know.
Lewis has never had anyone beat him by 7 tenths in his entire F1 career and whilst I know it was a great lap by Rosberg, I genuinely don't think he had the ability to have done that is out and out ability, it made Lewis look very ordinary.
Then came the race, Lewis looked slow all race, he only came alive after they said he could push, but again like in Italy that was too late.
In Italy, Lewis' start was atrocious for a further time this season, not being funny but he's been racing all his life, he's not going to have just forgotten how to get the car off the line is he?
Rosberg on the other hand has just been there to collect each time Lewis has had an issue, but also if you note, whilst Rosberg has had some issues this year, they've not really affected his qualifying or race chances.
So to stop waffling on? Are we seeing Lewis lose it? Are we seeing Rosberg becoming the racer he's always told us he was? At this rate, Lewis WILL lose the championship to Rosberg...
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Post by MartinT on Sept 19, 2016 21:08:37 GMT
Rosberg is fast, but he's not a great racer. He only likes being out in front.
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Post by robbiegong on Sept 20, 2016 6:52:41 GMT
That's exactly my analysis summary of Rosberg too Martin.
Like you pjdowns I'm a massive Hamilton fan and have pondered his season a lot this year.
Either way, the Lewis Hamilton we know will most certainly not give up his title without giving it his all, he's a battler.
If he gets in the zone and gets his mojo back Rosberg will be second best.
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Post by stanleyb on Sept 20, 2016 9:02:54 GMT
I'll never forget the race when Massa was F1 champion for about 40 seconds, before Hamilton snatched it from under his nose. Massa never recovered from that. I can see the same happening to Rosberg.
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Post by MartinT on Sept 20, 2016 9:37:19 GMT
Yes, I remember it well.
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