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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2015 21:53:12 GMT
I just can't understand your attitude Chris. I'm just trying to knock into peoples heads why some people are so pissed off they come on forums because they can't get satisfaction from these sellers. Frankly I don't like seeing people being ripped off. My original reason in starting this thread was to gather information and spread awareness since another forum owner who is banned here wanted to know the extent of the platter problem - result of a cross forum conversation I know. Frankly though I don't normally see eye yo eye with the man but he is now doing the right thing and putting pressure on the seller to put things right. If manufacturers would focus more on their existing customers surely that is better for their business in the long run.
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Post by MartinT on Dec 10, 2015 22:37:06 GMT
Head in the sand attitude all round here. Really? What exactly do you know as a fact? I have posted the facts as I see them, no suppositions or second-hand hearsay. I OWN an ETP platter and I've told you what my experiences are. What did you want me to do, repeat the bullshit so many others have posted and pretend that I'm all upset about it on their behalf? What about the other possibility, that some customers should never do any DIY, because you can't give them two pieces to fit together properly? Did they use petroleum jelly as I know Mike advised? Did they apply pressure to 'lock' the pieces together? Is their bearing in fact seated properly? A video doesn't prove anything so I remain unconvinced. Now I repeat, if you have nothing more informative to add to this discussion then just leave it alone.
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Post by MartinT on Dec 10, 2015 22:41:26 GMT
he is now doing the right thing and putting pressure on the seller to put things right. After a great deal of about-facing, I would add. You can't "knock into peoples heads" something that they haven't experienced, just because you want to hear it that way. We've had the debate here and the case has not been proven.
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Post by ChrisB on Dec 10, 2015 23:02:54 GMT
I think Paul expects you and Mike to throw your platters away and then join him in helpfully pointing out the sins that have been committed Martin. I bought a bag of lemons last Saturday and they have mold growing all over them today. I wonder if someone will go onto all the cookery forums around the country on my behalf and point out the terrible quality control of the fruit and veg department in Morrisons?
Paul, it's a shame that some people spent a lot of money on something that didn't live up to their expectations. We all see that and we have all been on the wrong side of what we feel is bad customer service.
But: Were you one of them? Are there any TAS members who were one of them? Are the TAS members who own the product dissatisfied with their purchases?
The answer to all of the above is, apparently, no.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2015 23:13:57 GMT
I just expect you to accept others have had problems and aren't incompetents or trouble makers. Just because the TAS members received good platters doesn't mean there isn't an issue. Plenty evidence that you choose to ignore. The fact that Marco has been back peddling tells you there is a genuine problem. Also MN has been far from helpful. I'm glad Martin has had a great experience with MN it would be better if all customers felt the same.
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Post by ChrisB on Dec 10, 2015 23:16:33 GMT
Post above now edited/added to.
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Post by John on Dec 11, 2015 5:20:27 GMT
No one is denying other peoples experiences. Being someone who uses small business I do not expect the same quality control as a manufacturer offers.
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Post by dsjr on Dec 11, 2015 9:25:43 GMT
If you run a small business, it can actually help you to develop a good *and lasting* relationship with your customers/clients.
The platter that started all this was warped, as when laid on its top on a flat glass surface, it wobbled. Nothing to do with seating on the spindle in this instance, but a possible sign of warping post machining. If MN had expressed shock and horror at this and immediately put things in motion to sort the problem, then forum exposure or not, he'd have come out of it as a caring and concerned supplier and manufacturer - in my opinion and experience. The days of the internet means that issues like this can or should be sorted quickly.
I know most of us are remote from the main problem as originally posted by the aggrieved party, but if MN had responded quickly and apologetically, his reputation would have been beneficially added to imo.
MOD: section removed, cross-selling to another product is inappropriate in this thread as it stands.
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Post by MartinT on Dec 11, 2015 9:58:46 GMT
The platter that started all this was warped, as when laid on its top on a flat glass surface, it wobbled. Nothing to do with seating on the spindle in this instance, but a possible sign of warping post machining. Sorry, Dave, I thought I was quite clear in previous posts. Which platter, who bought it? Without clear information, your post and any others like it will be deleted.
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Post by pinkie on Dec 11, 2015 10:18:56 GMT
Dave I think your point about how you respond is a good one. It appears there is some more history - and I am not interested in being told to "look in the archive" - but in this particular case Mike seems to have been hijacked. I appreciate that forum membership means things can be discussed, and you have to take the rough with the smooth, and it is appropriate to ask fellow users for advice, but things moved so quickly here that Mike didn't really get a chance to respond. His responses may have seemed a bit defensive, and personally I would have responded differently, but the item in question was sold on in the space of a day I think, and before Mike had any opportunity to deal with it. I know how much Arthur appreciates having other people tell him how to run his business and how to design his products. And this Technics modification market is a tricky one, which personally I have always told Arthur he should avoid like the plague, and focus on his day job. The original was designed for mass production. I think 3 million sold - that brings the unit production cost down a lot. The design is based on castings rather than machinings - which achieves a good finish, but perhaps compromised sound quality. Take the bearing - "Spin" for Technics needs 3 times the machining hours of "Spin" for Funk or PT. Mechanically its the same bearing - the difference is taper on the spindle and the outer casing to enable it be mounted. And most of the cost is engineering time , not raw material. It doesn't affect how it sounds, but the need for a retro fit to the Technics original design demands the significant extra machining. Funk's platter has also suffered teething problems. Loads. AK (who I visited yesterday) has a skip with 20 or 30 reject platters in. That probably puts his unit cost at £3000 for the handful sold. He should leave the Technics market alone in my view. And this finish issue is a case in point. The wobble on the platter resting on glass in the video looks fairly small - and I would be surprised if it is solely responsible for the wobble in movement. Plastic is better suited to a nice chunky block like a PT platter (with all the associated fiddle of fitting the belt) than a thin structure like the technics - for which a cast metal is structurally a better solution. How much does appearance matter over performance? The latest version of the Funk platter has a plastic ring around the edge to hide the join between the glass layers and "smarten it up". For a purely cosmetic item, even the machined plastic ring Arthur is using is collossally expensive. It contributes nothing, zip, nada to the sound or performance. But makes it look smarter. Except, it is almost impossible to get it completely true - so visually it looks as if there is a (slight) wobble like the one Andrew was disconcerted by. Now - obviously with float glass, the record support surface is dead flat, and you can measure that with a gauge. But the cosmetic ring makes it look like it wobbles. Does that matter? Fixing it would need a metal instead of plastic ring, and you might as well build a space shuttle for the cost you are getting up to. And a Funk platter comes with an integral 5mm Achromat. Which is plastic. And will never be totally flat or stable accordingly. Arthur clearly feels it is flat enough ("use a f****g felt mat if you want flat and a crap sound" - unquote). But an aerated plastic is never going to be without some movement. I think the Technics modification market is one he should have steered clear of, although having sunk so much money in, he does appear to have marketable product now. However, in todays very different market from the heydays of the 70' and 80's the only real volume is very cheap and accessories. So his new BO!NG venture is much more commercially sensible. (I keep trying to get him to do a mains cable!) I think I'm rambling. I'll finish with a direct quote from my old buddy - "Poor Mike"
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Post by MartinT on Dec 11, 2015 12:07:26 GMT
I'm about to rename the title of this thread as being misleading, Dave.
Very happy to start a new thread and move the relevant posts over.
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Post by MartinT on Dec 11, 2015 12:19:05 GMT
Technics SL-1200 Mk.II technical discussion moved here.
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Post by dsjr on Dec 11, 2015 13:54:54 GMT
The platter that started all this was warped, as when laid on its top on a flat glass surface, it wobbled. Nothing to do with seating on the spindle in this instance, but a possible sign of warping post machining. Sorry, Dave, I thought I was quite clear in previous posts. Which platter, who bought it? Without clear information, your post and any others like it will be deleted. I thought the platter that started all this belonged to AOS and now HFS member 'allthingsanalogue' who ended up selling it and the deck itself to Dave Cawley, who's reported it here. It kicked off on AOS and Marco deleted the thread once the deck was sold to DC. Other people came out and stated that their platters were less than 100% although NONE of them complained about the sonics. I believe these parts (platter and bearing) are no longer in production and that Marco was looking into ways of compensation, but I can't be sure as I've not ventured on AOS lately.
I hope this is factual enough. The drama spread here because of Marco's original actions, although he's turned about on that now. Nobody's complained about the sonics, just the after-care and attitude they've received.
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Post by MartinT on Dec 11, 2015 14:03:53 GMT
Was it an ETP platter or one of the earlier ones? I don't know the chap and need to know for sure that it's pertinent to this thread. I thought the whole shebang was about the bearing taper fitment, a warped platter is something different that I wasn't aware of.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2015 14:32:29 GMT
Was it an ETP platter or one of the earlier ones? I don't know the chap and need to know for sure that it's pertinent to this thread. I thought the whole shebang was about the bearing taper fitment, a warped platter is something different that I wasn't aware of. Martin it was very clear that this was about the platter being warped. Another user later raised the taper fitment issue which appears to relate only to one example. The AOS member that sold his TT to DC posted videos showing the warp on his TT and spinning on a flat surface. The warp was obvious. This was nothing to do with fitting to the tapered bearing. I think the users concerned were well aware as to how to fit the platter correctly. The issue was that 'allthingsanalogue' was unable to get a satisfactory response from Mike New and in frustration aired the problem on AOS. A number of other members then reported the same issue to a greater or lesser extent. I think the deletion of a lot of posts may have caused confusion if you came to this a little later. Hope that clarifies the issue. Just so there is no doubt the platter concerned is the EPT and not the earlier steel version.
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Post by pinkie on Dec 11, 2015 15:03:24 GMT
The now legendary and famous platter in question is warped. There is a video showing that - with the platter upside down on flat glass. This was produced to show that the issue was a warp and not a bearing fit issue. However
The warp is not much (DC could obviously put feeler gauges in there and measure it) and Mike New has effectively said it could be within tolerances, due to the thin nature of the outer rim
I quote "Incidentally when checking my own platter on a surface plate top down it was possible to observe a discernable movement due to the fact that you are pressing on the outer rim which has no support."
There was also a video of the platter on the deck spinning with quite a pronounced "wobble" at the edge, which looks like it involves more than the warp on the plastic disc itself. Again - DC has the ability to put a gauge on it. Mike's comments were made from watching the videos. He hasn't had the opportunity to physically examine the item.
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Post by MartinT on Dec 11, 2015 15:32:16 GMT
Ok, thanks both. The only video I saw was the one showing the apparent mis-fitment of platter to spindle.
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Post by dsjr on Dec 11, 2015 15:56:11 GMT
I believe MN has agreed to deal with any issues privately and as a result, I suspect the matter can be dealt with as 'closed.' MN is in his 70's and probably started this venture out as a little lucrative sideline that probably blew up.
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Post by The Brookmeister on Jan 1, 2016 19:39:57 GMT
Hardly lucrative is it !!!
Selling a few bits of plastic for a dis-continued turntable
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