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Post by dvh on Dec 7, 2015 23:17:33 GMT
Martin it was suggested to me that you might do a video of yours by you know who. Videos were published of the wobbly ones and they should be still on You tube. The statistics, such as they are, are too granular to act either way. I have no idea where or why this has blown up but it sounds like there are few owners and many more with an opinion. I've stated that my ETP is fine. There is no need for a video and I've no intention of making one. I think you should. Make it a 12 hour video like the one Andy Warhol did of the Empire State Building. Put in for the Turner Prize (no pun intended). It should be silent except for the sound of the turntable motor itself. People across the globe will watch it on YouTube, agog to see if they can spot even a minuscule wobble (that sounds like a line from an Elvis Costello song).
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Post by alaska on Dec 8, 2015 0:14:49 GMT
There's no place here for the mini-skirt waddle......
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ynwan
Rank: Trio
Posts: 185
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Post by ynwan on Dec 8, 2015 0:33:48 GMT
I can't say I'm very impressed with the machining of the platter in question but this thread seems to have more to do with cross forum trolling than anything else.
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Post by MartinT on Dec 8, 2015 6:38:13 GMT
I think you should. Make it a 12 hour video like the one Andy Warhol did of the Empire State Building. Put in for the Turner Prize (no pun intended). It should be silent except for the sound of the turntable motor itself. People across the globe will watch it on YouTube, agog to see if they can spot even a minuscule wobble (that sounds like a line from an Elvis Costello song).
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Post by MartinT on Dec 8, 2015 6:42:01 GMT
I can't say I'm very impressed with the machining of the platter in question but this thread seems to have more to do with cross forum trolling than anything else. It's certainly more than passable (I simply assumed that is the finish achievable with ETP) and I tend to lay records on it to play, not look at it. Frankly, I only care about how it sounds and it's better than the Mike New aluminium platter with Achromat that I had previously.
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Post by pinkie on Dec 8, 2015 7:53:18 GMT
I can't say I'm very impressed with the machining of the platter in question but this thread seems to have more to do with cross forum trolling than anything else. It's certainly more than passable (I simply assumed that is the finish achievable with ETP) and I tend to lay records on it to play, not look at it. Frankly, I only care about how it sounds and it's better than the Mike New aluminium platter with Achromat that I had previously. It's fascinating to read the different takes on the importance of fit and finish, compared with performance. I took a bit of heat elsewhere previously about dear old Pink Triangle, who heaven knows, were more in the "never mind the quality, feel the stunning performance" camp, than "look at this for bling". (Crinkly edged sub-chassis was the subject, which you can only see if you take the turntable apart - not only doesn't adversely affect how it sounds** - but isn't visible in normal use. But seems to have caused outrage about the products marketability) It would appear to be different in different markets. The Germans are particularly fussy. I remember one German dealer rejecting a turntable because of sawdust. This sawdust was under a minor component, which barring fire or flood would NEVER need to be removed, and so for all normal purposes didn't exist. "Why did he take it apart???" - "To see how it was built" was the reply. You pays your money, and takes your choice. And the Germans apparantly would rather it looked pretty than sounded good - although they don't mind if it sounds good as well. ** - the "rough" "unfinished" (and invisible in normal use) crinkly edge to the Pink Triangle aerolam sub-chassis is actually critical to how it, and the turntables design, work. So not only does it not adversely affect sound quality, it positively contributes to it. You pays your money...
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Post by MartinT on Dec 8, 2015 8:08:28 GMT
I liken it to the car modding arena, where the younger members, especially, have a different stance on modding.
I was shown one under-the-bonnet CR-Z where the bling - even the bolt heads - and 'socks' over items like the brake fluid reservoir, were dumbfounding to me. I asked how it improves performance and was met with consternation at my lack of appreciation!
Conversely, I showed my car and the older members were full of appreciation at the supercharger installation and airflow routing while a younger chap suggested that I should have the engine steam cleaned. Once again, I asked how it would improve my car's performance and was met with the same apparent amazement that I should ask such a question!
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Post by DaveC on Dec 8, 2015 9:17:29 GMT
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Post by dvh on Dec 8, 2015 9:36:27 GMT
No-one in their right mind would buy a nearly £700 platter with or without very visible lathe turning marks!
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Post by dsjr on Dec 8, 2015 9:45:39 GMT
I can't say I'm very impressed with the machining of the platter in question but this thread seems to have more to do with cross forum trolling than anything else. Mark, you know that this came here because Marco was deleting threads and posts. Also the general denial of the maker doesn't really inspire confidence, especially as previously, he didn't appear to know the difference between drag and friction in his bearing - high drag but low friction.
Pinky, early PT's used to all but fall apart if you weren't careful and the sub chassis finish wasn't good at all. I have to dispute the comments about the bad finish actually improving performance (where the heck did you get that one from?), as LATER PT's had beautifully cut aerolam sub-chassis' - so there!
The one issue with PT and Funk, right up to the present day with current turntables, which I've seen, used and liked, is the difficulty Arthur has in getting parts to fit and be properly finished off. Once he gets it sorted, the prices then rocket sadly...
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Post by pinkie on Dec 8, 2015 10:04:24 GMT
Dave You may have been mixing with bad company. QC and finish WAS a weakness at Pink Triangle, and as you say, in large part that was due to trying to meet a competitors price point using much higher component cost.(The original PT - subject of most of the complaints - launched for £300 to meet the LP12 head on. The sheet aerolam and unmachined acrylic probably cost more than all of the components in the LP12. The motor was 5 times the price) Putting the price up to levels commensurate with the additional material costs enabled the finish and QC to match QC and finish at early PT has been exaggerated by legend. I have an early PT on the shelf here at home, and use it every day. It is not a bag of nails, and is still working 30 or more years on with a new bearing and maybe half a dozen belts. It was typical of hundreds I saw personally. There were too many bad ones, but for the millionth time, stop exaggerating. The complaint was that the edge of the aerolam was left as a bare cut - like the sub-chassis in my turntable. Its not scruffy or bodged or badly cut. It just has a bare edge - in the same way that if you made something from corrugated cardboard you would see that corrugated edge - you can peer into the structure. You can't see that in normal use - only when you take the TT apart (you can see it when changing an arm, but not when playing a record). It would be possible to finish that better, by adding an edging strip to hide the corrugations. Doing so "muffles" the sub-chassis. A PT works by channelling energy into the sub-chassis where it is dissipated (it sings - you can put a mike in there and listen to it). Blocking the edges of the sub-chassis spoils that. The "uber quality" Anniversary, oft cited as an example of PT improved finish, painted it black (nextel) but left the edges crinkly Unless, of course, you or your friends know better
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Post by Weecrackpot on Dec 8, 2015 11:20:51 GMT
I have refrained from commenting and make this my one and only post, i object to your repeated claims of poor PT build quality as exaggerated legend and as ''urban myth'' as you've put it in AoS.
I purchased a brand new Export with GTI power supply, after 16 months or so i decided to sell it on, after packing in it's original box and sourcing a outer to protect the original box for the new owber, the TT fell apart in it's travels, worst of all was the little suspension block that act as the adjustment came away from the plinth, upon checking it was only held in with a blob of what look like PVA glue and the plinth itself started to part,the lid was coming apart too, i ended up selling the sapphire bearing, the GTI power supply board and the rega armboard, still have the Aerolam sub-chassis kicking about, the rest just went to landfill, never again will i own a PT product again.
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Post by DaveC on Dec 8, 2015 12:21:02 GMT
I'm not sure why I'm posing here, but as I'm banned from AoS and I'm mentioned in this thread I'll just post the facts as they arise. A few observations on the turntable in question, right-click on the image above to see it all ? : 1. The bearing is very, very high drag, much more so than I remember them. 2. The run out on a dial gauge varies across the diameter, I need way more time to analyse this and to compare it to the standard Technics and SME 3. The surface finish is to be honest poor. I wonder if a an automatic feed was used for the final cut ?
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Post by MartinT on Dec 8, 2015 12:21:37 GMT
No-one in their right mind would buy a nearly £700 platter with or without very visible lathe turning marks! I paid less than £700 so the price must have gone up. Are you saying I'm not in my right mind? Why should that be, in the context of a deck that cost around £5k in total, and winning back the resale of my previous platter. To me, for the SQ improvement, it was perfectly justified.
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Post by dvh on Dec 8, 2015 12:58:46 GMT
No-one in their right mind would buy a nearly £700 platter with or without very visible lathe turning marks! I paid less than £700 so the price must have gone up. Are you saying I'm not in my right mind? Why should that be, in the context of a deck that cost around £5k in total, and winning back the resale of my previous platter. To me, for the SQ improvement, it was perfectly justified. It was just a throwaway remark really. No aspersions meant towards those who wish to spend that sort of money, sorry if offence taken.
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Post by MartinT on Dec 8, 2015 13:02:13 GMT
Don't worry, offence not taken! You're going to have to try a lot harder...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2015 13:33:41 GMT
Martin I'm guessing you would not have accepted the platter if it looked like the one above?
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Post by MartinT on Dec 8, 2015 13:51:11 GMT
It doesn't look far off that, but without the radial scratch. To be honest, it doesn't look so bad in normal light. However, I tend to listen to it not look at it.
I don't know how else to put this than it sounds the best of any platter solution I've had on the Technics, and the ETP interfaces better with LPs than using any mat, so I use it 'nude'.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2015 14:21:12 GMT
Not doubting the SQ of this material. Similar to Michell. Using mats with this type of platter defeats the object as supposed to be similar as possible to vinyl. I do think QC needs improving, especially at the asking price.
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Post by MikeMusic on Dec 8, 2015 15:24:53 GMT
I bunged it on to listen to and was convinced, didn't look at it much, especially as it's black so it must be perfect !
I'm not big on lights and no close inspections Must take a close look at it
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