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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2015 23:42:33 GMT
There seems to be some rather good looking but inexpensive casework coming from China these days? ...as I pointed out here. So you did... It's all pretty much up in the air at the moment. I've been working the midnight oil for the last couple of days on the actual circuitry.... It's coming on well. I have a 19" rack case here that's still got the plastic protective sheet on the front panel which I've had lying around for 20 years so the prototype will go in this. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2015 14:19:52 GMT
Early prototype up and running. Valve/solid state hybrid. Almost all actual amplification by valves. Zero feedback. Passive RIAA eq. Semi transconductance circuitry. Loads of gain. Low output impedance to drive anything....
First impressions are it's quiet as a mouse and sounds excellent! I was hearing a funny noise on a Blue Nile track when I was about to type now and it turns out it's an instrument in the background I've never noticed before.
Hopefully more to come from it as I add the much improved regulated HT supplies in place of the humongous 1000uF 385V electrolytics doing the "no hum and low output impedance" part at present.....
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2015 18:34:45 GMT
Very low noise shunt regulated supply now in construction.....
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2015 13:59:35 GMT
..... built and being fine tuned by ear..
Micro Ohm region output impedance power supplies are one complete twat to get right I can tell you!! Not helped by a 47K 3 Watt resistor going open circuit when only dissipating 1W and for no apparent reason! Experience tells me that it was about the last component to be likely to have failed, hence virtually everything else was checked out, and some parts changed as a precaution, before eventually finding the culprit! These things are sent to try us...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2015 13:47:37 GMT
Well I see the genesis of this phono stage is really capturing the imagination of readers.....
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Post by AlanS on Jul 26, 2015 15:32:52 GMT
I have one of your standard improved 640p stages, bought it S/H.
It was a good device and improved over the standard 640p. However two things that you might take on board.
Having got your stage, improved the stylus and fitted a PSU to the TT I realise that to meet the richness of digital and the freedom from distracting noise would require a lot more spending than I want. I don't spend my time searching for SH vinyl and rarely buy new after some poor experiences.
So for this potential punter no matter how incredible your new invention might be I am not a customer.
Should my current device fail I cannot be assured that you would restore it to working condition with your changing circumstance.
Sorry
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2015 16:01:18 GMT
I have one of your standard improved 640p stages, bought it S/H. It was a good device and improved over the standard 640p. However two things that you might take on board. Having got your stage, improved the stylus and fitted a PSU to the TT I realise that to meet the richness of digital and the freedom from distracting noise would require a lot more spending than I want. I don't spend my time searching for SH vinyl and rarely buy new after some poor experiences. So for this potential punter no matter how incredible your new invention might be I am not a customer. Should my current device fail I cannot be assured that you would restore it to working condition with your changing circumstance. Sorry If I am interpreting you correctly then you are saying that you personally are not interested in vinyl at all having tried it and found it too costly to get the level of performance you seek.... I fail to see the relevance of that I'm afraid... BTW I continue to maintain the Arkless 640P and they are still available. |
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Post by AlanS on Jul 26, 2015 16:41:37 GMT
I have one of your standard improved 640p stages, bought it S/H. It was a good device and improved over the standard 640p. However two things that you might take on board. Having got your stage, improved the stylus and fitted a PSU to the TT I realise that to meet the richness of digital and the freedom from distracting noise would require a lot more spending than I want. I don't spend my time searching for SH vinyl and rarely buy new after some poor experiences. So for this potential punter no matter how incredible your new invention might be I am not a customer. Should my current device fail I cannot be assured that you would restore it to working condition with your changing circumstance. Sorry If I am interpreting you correctly then you are saying that you personally are not interested in vinyl at all having tried it and found it too costly to get the level of performance you seek.... I fail to see the relevance of that I'm afraid... BTW I continue to maintain the Arkless 640P and they are still available. No you are not interpreting me correctly but many on TaS don't, c'est la vie. Strong on interpreters this forum, projecting their agenda on to moi. I am interested in vinyl as I have a long built up collection, not like the Jonny come lately fans that abound. I still have the Rega Planar 3 I bought in 1980 something but use something else now. I just find vinyl eclipsed by the quality I can achieve with far less cost and effort by digital. Why spend time and money for less pleasure? Being not interested at all is your reaction to my not raving about your efforts. Don't be a sulky so and so. Times are changing, some newbies are discovering vinyl (for how long) others are moving on to newer ways to store and enjoy their music. Thats my message for you, don't assume your market. Best of luck |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2015 16:58:45 GMT
If I am interpreting you correctly then you are saying that you personally are not interested in vinyl at all having tried it and found it too costly to get the level of performance you seek.... I fail to see the relevance of that I'm afraid... BTW I continue to maintain the Arkless 640P and they are still available. No you are not interpreting me correctly but many on TaS don't, c'est la vie. Strong on interpreters this forum, projecting their agenda on to moi. I am interested in vinyl as I have a long built up collection, not like the Jonny come lately fans that abound. I still have the Rega Planar 3 I bought in 1980 something but use something else now. I just find vinyl eclipsed by the quality I can achieve with far less cost and effort by digital. Why spend time and money for less pleasure? Being not interested at all is your reaction to my not raving about your efforts. Don't be a sulky so and so. Times are changing, some newbies are discovering vinyl (for how long) others are moving on to newer ways to store and enjoy their music. Thats my message for you, don't assume your market. Best of luck That's a strange reply..... It would seem I did interpret you pretty much correctly in that you have no interest in upgrading your vinyl equipment because you think digital offers better VFM, which it probably does. So why post in a thread about phono stages that you won't be upgrading your vinyl so don't need a better phono stage  As for "Being not interested at all is your reaction to my not raving about your efforts. Don't be a sulky so and so." well that's even stranger.... why would I be sulky about someone who isn't interested in upgrading his phono stage not raving about a phono stage??? I will admit to thinking "this is odd.... there seems to be no interest whatsoever in this post after it initially attracting a fair few replies.... what's going on?" |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2015 8:14:19 GMT
I have a few dilemmas regarding the direction a future new product should go which you lot may be able to offer some insight into. The main issues are: upmarket or fairly budget (ish) and would making it a hybrid put off potential customers. Both cases would be valve or mainly valve. As a one man band it would obviously be MUCH better for me to make a small quantity of upmarket units rather than many more at a lower price... But as a relatively unknown brand many may think "I don't care how amazing it is I'm not taking a punt on that at £1800". The upmarket one would be MC only with no option for MM. I don't believe many people paying that amount for a high end phono stage will be wanting to use a MM cart... The cheaper one at probably around £500 would be MM only but people could of course use a SUT for MC. Hybrid techniques, using valves and solid state together where each can play to its strong points, allow a substantial improvement in performance and saving in cost compared to purely valve, the issue of course is that some misguided souls may think "I don't want my "valve sound" polluted by silicon" . I held a poll on various new product ideas on pfm a while back and out of TT power supply, small mains regenerator for pre amps, head phone amps (one cheap one high end) and phono stages at different prices, solid state and valve, it was definitely phono stages that were of most interest to people. Hence this now. Opinions please (constructive hopefully!) welcome as it's interesting to get the view of potential customers rather than me seeing everything from an engineering perspective! For my pennies worth I think you should also make one to retail for a couple of hundred pounds. Not everyone is prepared to spend more than that. Remember that on here most of the guys are enthusiasts, but you want to sell to everyone. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2015 12:58:51 GMT
Thanks for your input. I'm afraid that there won't be any £200 phono stages. That sector of the market is well catered for already and isn't conducive to small scale production. Something at twice that price may be possible. Valve equipment will always be more expensive due to the price of the valves themselves combined with the need for high voltage power supplies, high voltage capacitors and higher power resistors and low voltage heater supplies. An all discrete solid state phono stage would be possible at the £400 ish mark as would an op-amp based unit. Another issue, and one that is very rarely mentioned, is that in the majority of cases (not all) it is a compromise to make the unit switchable for MM and MC. Circuit techniques which are optimum for MC are usually not for MM and vice versa. There's more to it than "just" the difficult task of getting low enough noise at the increased gain needed for MC as well. Op-amp based units are the easiest to make switchable with little or no compromise (such as the Arkless 640P which I make) but may fall short in the ultimate performance league due to the op amps themselves... With valves it is fairly straightforward to make a good MM only phono stage at the mid price point but a whole lot more difficult (and expensive) to make an MC one. SUT's can of course be used but reasonably priced ones are not much cop and good ones are so expensive that a proper MC facility on the unit could have been offered for less..... And that's just the tip of the iceberg... there's more to phono stages than meets the eye  |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2015 13:24:38 GMT
That all makes perfect sense and may I say it's nice to have someone with your knowledge and experience take the time and care to explain so clearly.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2015 15:24:33 GMT
Just going for the hi-end eh?
Why not? Good luck with it all, let us know how it goes.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2015 15:43:41 GMT
Just going for the hi-end eh? Why not? Good luck with it all, let us know how it goes. Thanks (and Singularity). Well I'm keeping you all posted at the minute as to it's development.... The version I'm building at the moment is pretty high end yes but hopefully I can distil from it the best ideas at the lowest cost and end up with something that sounds just as good (or near as damn it) but for lower cost. The Super Regulator I'm experimenting with is looking like it may be a dead end in as much as other cheaper (and much easier to tame!) options are looking like offering better sound for less money and effort. However, I haven't exhausted the possibilities for the Super Regulator as yet so there may be a later post saying "eureka! the last mods to the regulator have transformed it to offering such good results that it's definitely going in!".... or could be an upgrade option. Sometimes the most expensive, difficult and closest to perfect (from the engineering viewpoint) option turns out not to be the best sounding Watch this space. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2015 19:36:47 GMT
How'd you learn to do all this?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2015 11:52:22 GMT
How'd you learn to do all this? Erm... I'm an electronic engineer, it's what I do for a living. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2015 21:10:20 GMT
Latest instalment... External PSU is now built. All point to point wired. Slow start for both HT and LT, highly regulated, short circuit protected. The shunt regulator in the actual phono stage is now properly sorted as well. A quick listen just now showed the new regulator to be helping it to give most un-valve like bass!
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Post by MartinT on Aug 15, 2015 21:45:32 GMT
What's the topology, Jez? Passive RIAA? Hybrid or all-valve? Local or overall NFB?
As for un-valve like bass, that sounds promising! I'm all for electronics without character.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2015 12:57:13 GMT
What's the topology, Jez? Passive RIAA? Hybrid or all-valve? Local or overall NFB? As for un-valve like bass, that sounds promising! I'm all for electronics without character. I think i covered it in an earlier post but it's hybrid, with valves doing most of the actual amplification (Lack of feedback means all the gain for MC can be realised with just two triodes per channel). MC only, passive RIAA, "semi transconductance topology" (sorry but I'm not going to elaborate on that), local feedback in first stage, no feedback in second stage, separate power supply gives HT and LT totally smoothed and regulated and with slow start to prolong valve filament life. The main HT regulation is of course in the phono stage itself where it should be It has loads of gain, is very quiet, measures good and early indications are it sounds great. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2015 14:30:25 GMT
Just wondering if you're planning to take the unit to shows/bake-offs? I was wondering primarily about NEBO
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