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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2015 6:24:44 GMT
what I feel southall was trying to get across albeit in a non PC way possibly was that people from Israel tend to stick together when it comes to business and use their deep routed connections to achieve their goals. "People from Israel"?..."stick together" You mean like Ed Miliband, Amy Winehouse, Tom Stoppard, Peter Sellars, Stephen Fry and Yehudi Menhuin? I really have no idea what is going on in this list any more, when comments like the above are used to generalise attitudes to 0.4% of British citizens. Even in Israel - a country about the same size as Wales - the Jewish population is only 6 million. Worldwide the population is just short of 14 million, or 0.2% of the world population, with over 80% in Israel and the USA. It has never recovered the number of over 16 million before the Third Reich set about eliminating the "Jewish problem". So pin your colours to the mast - where exactly do you stand here? |
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Post by MartinT on Jun 11, 2015 6:27:32 GMT
I have removed text or deleted posts as appropriate to bring the thread back on topic and keep it legal.
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Post by guy on Jun 11, 2015 6:48:42 GMT
I looked up the definition on the CPS website: "A racial group means a group of persons defined by reference to race, colour, nationality (including citizenship) or ethnic or national origins." The definition is wide and victims may come within the definition under more than one of the references................" (my bold) So perhaps the comment wasn't inane after all. However, I strongly believe that apologies all round, or a deletion of the thread, would be the best course of action. So, if charged with an offence of issuing a racist slur against Jews, your defence would be "I also issued racist slurs against other groups and nobody objected to those comments". i look forward to hearing the Court's view on that defence. that defence is certainly inane. Guy's reply: I wouldn't issue a racist slur about any group of people. Unlike your indefensible position of thinking that to point out the racist connotations of prejudiced comments regarding British or American is inane. I think that Friston summed up my point rather well, strange that you had trouble understanding it. |
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Post by MartinT on Jun 11, 2015 7:05:02 GMT
Could we stop with the discussion of racial slurs please? We don't want to be deleting potential actionable posts. The alternative is that the whole thread will have to be deleted.
Thank you.
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Post by AlanS on Jun 11, 2015 9:25:18 GMT
Unbelievable
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Post by aurender on Jun 11, 2015 9:32:07 GMT
Since members guy and frisson seem unable to understand the very serious issues at stake here, I suggest the thread is deleted.
For clarity, I find racism abhorrent. National stereotyping is a form of racism. The severity of the offence is determined by the offence it causes. The horrific persecution of the Jews is one of the worst stains on humanity. Too often I have come across the worst kind of racial stereotyping in the most unexpected places. Quite recently, one of the more relaxed forums I occasionally visit descended into a quite disgusting debate about the ease of recognising Jews and I found it necessary to report the relevant comments to the police.
It is quite amazing that in 2015 people still seem happy to spout such racist claptrap.
Please close this thread so we can get on talking as friends on audio or other interesting subjects.
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Post by Chris on Jun 11, 2015 9:56:52 GMT
Could we stop with the discussion of racial slurs please? We don't want to be deleting potential actionable posts. The alternative is that the whole thread will have to be deleted. Thank you. |
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Post by julesd68 on Jun 11, 2015 9:57:45 GMT
It is interesting that Joseph Goebbels recognised the power of the 'crafty Jew' stereotype, so much so that he commissioned a propaganda film about it - "Jew Suss". Audiences lapped it up with some 20 million punters going to see it. The film is shocking beyond belief, and not easy viewing, but if anyone wants to see it, you can easiy find the entire film on YouTube. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jud_S%C3%BC%C3%9F_%281940_film%29 |
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Post by guy on Jun 11, 2015 10:06:49 GMT
Absolutely appalling that so many Jews died as a result lies/propaganda/stereotyping.
A warning from recent history which people ignore at the peril of all of us.
The reason why the acceptance of abuse made to people of any race, colour, nationality (including citizenship) or ethnic or national origins should not be ignored.
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Post by Dave on Jun 11, 2015 10:44:58 GMT
As unpleasant as it obviously is to read racially scurrilous comments on a forum it serves a purpose in as much as it opens a window into the personality of the individual/s concerned. It is educational for those reading the comments and ideally I'd also hope that the same might apply to the author/s once they've re-read and considered the full implications of what has been written.
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Post by pinkie on Jun 11, 2015 12:04:34 GMT
I think you can take "PC" too far. There is a difference between laughing at and laughing with - and "abuse" falls into the "laughing at" category.
I have honestly just finished talking to Manjit - my turban wearing Sikh client, who may help my wife set up an ebay business in France - discussing his uncle who is a builder, and HIS accountant, and the amazing tax saving things he does, and I declined to. I asked why he didn't use his Uncle's accountant and he replied "I wouldn't use a f***ing Asian accountant - you can't trust em". We both know he didn't mean it - but he is safe saying it, and I wouldn't be.
Similarly I will (hopefully) see my mate Nigel at tennis squad on Sunday - I missed last week being away in France . He is black Caribbean (skin - "sarf lundun" accent) , and I know what he's going to say. "Cheese Rich, where you been this time? You call that a suntan?"
It would be a dull world if everyone went round being uber-PC. That sort of nonsense is trashing state education.
Zero tolerance for abuse - a bit more chilled if affection instead of malice is at the back of a comment.
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Post by MikeMusic on Jun 11, 2015 12:13:36 GMT
S'ok between mates who are (must be) on the same page
Back in the 70s I was lucky enough to work at Rank Xerox <cough>
They took on the first black sales guy in the UK in our office.
One of our number constantly kept going with racist banter.
To us in the 70s that was funny to start with.
Yes, it was a joke, although probably not so for the jokee.
Became boring and offensive
I started telling the guy doing the same old 'jokes' day in day out to be quiet in an Anglo Saxon way.
He eventually stopped.
He was and likely still is an idiot
The black guy and I became mates after we left RX
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2015 13:14:42 GMT
Sad to see a thread set up to discuss harmless little niggles go off track. The OP was clearly thinking we'd malign nothing more serious than Broccoli too. It can happen to the best of us, at times. For me, focusing on negativity is often self-destructive as well as dragging others down when they focus on their own dissatisfaction. That's why I stay away from forums of that nature. I found they got me down and spoiled my enjoyment of hifi and music. So many good things to talk about, it doesn't pay to dwell on dislikes unless it's used as a lever to change things.
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Post by ChrisB on Jun 11, 2015 13:31:26 GMT
Shane's comment was ill advised - all of us including him, appear to agree with that. However, he has apologised for it and I really don't think he was actually consciously trying to spread racial hatred, much less condoning any further acts of genocide, so I feel there is a bit of an over-reaction here.
I am sorry that anyone may have been offended in this way by something they have read on TAS, but I think now is the time to draw a line under it.
I cautioned against negatively premised threads earlier, and I stand by that. If you must discuss what you dislike, I think it best to return to the level of broccoli and people who fart in public.
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Post by pinkie on Jun 11, 2015 13:32:21 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2015 13:39:47 GMT
Shane's comment was ill advised - all of us including him, appear to agree with that. However, he has apologised for it and I really don't think he was actually consciously trying to spread racial hatred, much less condoning any further acts of genocide, so I feel there is a bit of an over-reaction here. I am sorry that anyone may have been offended in this way by something they have read on TAS, but I think now is the time to draw a line under it. I cautioned against negatively premised threads earlier, and I stand by that. If you must discuss what you dislike, I think it best to return to the level of broccoli and people who fart in public. Agree with every word. Shane's a good sort and a great contributor to many forums. Sometimes we can all say something without thinking and offend others. |
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Post by Slinger on Jun 11, 2015 13:44:10 GMT
Likkle white bwoys who try to sound like dem is rude bwoys. I love the English language and hate to see it (in my opinion) butchered by those who should know better. As Shaw said, youth is wasted on the young.
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Post by MikeMusic on Jun 11, 2015 14:19:53 GMT
Perhaps Ali G has it right "is it cos I is black ?"  |
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Post by pinkie on Jun 11, 2015 14:37:26 GMT
Likkle white bwoys who try to sound like dem is rude bwoys. I love the English language and hate to see it (in my opinion) butchered by those who should know better. As Shaw said, youth is wasted on the young. Hmm. I find myself a Stephen Fry progressive (a stance whose origins I suspect lie in playing Devils advocate to my Dad, and his conviction that the English language was perfected for all time in the early 1940's at Dartford Grammar School for Boys - regardless of the fact that Mick Jagger was an alumnus of said institution) My wife despairs of modern teen English - and we were trying to explain some of it to the French teachers who were bunked with us. "Well good" and "really random" were a couple helping our rich and varied language to move on from "Me thinks he doth protest too much". "Sick" was the one Sue struggled with (meaning "really good" "the best"). As in "that Bach Double violin concerto is well sick" However - as I pointed out to her - she copes with accepting that "wicked" has the same meaning. Language evolves. The composite present tense we all use in English today ( "am doing" "are thinking" "I am playing guitar now") - originated at the end of the 19th century. Before that - in King James' time, up until around 1800, "Forgive them Lord for they don't know what they are doing" was "Forgive them Lord, for they know not what they do". Basically the same gramatical structure as the other Latin languages. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2015 15:54:37 GMT
Back to the original question.
Overcooked broccoli.
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