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Post by John on Mar 23, 2015 16:38:02 GMT
I power my bass separately so go active just in the bass and control crossover via DSP. This allows to control the slopes etc. Works really well for my bass speakers
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Post by Sovereign on Mar 23, 2015 16:45:25 GMT
I power my bass separately so go active just in the bass and control crossover via DSP. This allows to control the slopes etc. Works really well for my bass speakers Interestingly I bought a modified Behringer DCX2496 last week. I also bought all the components for a Mother class A build.
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Post by pre65 on Mar 23, 2015 16:50:33 GMT
I try to avoid complication.
Just 1 cap and 1 inductor in my SERIES crossover.
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Post by John on Mar 23, 2015 16:53:06 GMT
I tried the DCX2496 I could not really get on with it but others have faired better with it. I think something like the Motu Ultralite mk3 or Mini DSP is a good place to start I was really impressed with Speedy Steve system and the results he gets from DSP but that using it own DAC arrangement and think your DDAC is pretty special so not the best route for you to go down
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Post by John on Mar 23, 2015 16:56:05 GMT
I try to avoid complication.
Just 1 cap and 1 inductor in my SERIES crossover. Yes it a good appoach if you can get drivers to match enough
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Post by MartinT on Mar 23, 2015 17:34:35 GMT
Some of the Crown professional power amps have built-in digital filtering, I wonder if anyone has tried one like this as they have a good rep and it would remove the passive crossover components.
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Post by John on Mar 23, 2015 18:04:43 GMT
I see no reason why it would not be good if using to power the bass This is what I do with the Berhinger
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2015 18:33:49 GMT
What about wadding. Is it a myth that you need the stuff in the first place or is it a myth that you can actually do without it?
I have had speakers designed without foam or wadding that definitely sounded very lively and enjoyable. My only experience of removing the wadding was a pair of Epos ES14s during Jimmy Highes' heyday when he was advocating this. The life it brought to the Epos was not subtle. Sadly they also rang like a pair of bells so I re-fitted the foam but I never really settled with them again,man owing what I was missing.
Knowing what I do now, I would've left the foam out and tried to fettle the cabinets. One day I will try it with ES14s.
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Post by Sovereign on Mar 23, 2015 19:09:57 GMT
EPOS ES 14......Another distant memory, I would like to give those another go as well
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Post by daytona600 on Mar 23, 2015 20:19:58 GMT
Stats have no bass , low efficency , poor power handling & dynamics Subsonics - 94db - couple of kilowatt
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Post by tony on Mar 23, 2015 21:01:16 GMT
sound wonderful though!!!
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Post by Greg on Mar 23, 2015 21:10:48 GMT
What about wadding. Is it a myth that you need the stuff in the first place or is it a myth that you can actually do without it? A good point. From my own experience of building my own speakers and tweaking commercial products, the use of foam is an absolute cost saving manufacturers compromise and for good open sound, not the way to go. Depending on your speaker design, most tweeters need nothing because they are fully enclosed, but that is not the absolute rule because some are not. In a two way system, the mid bass will prefer a relatively open chamber, usually without any stuffing including long haired wool, but work well with natural fibre thick underlay carpet felt stuck to the cabinet sides and behind the driver on the back panel. How far you extend the area covered is a suck and see situation and if more damping is needed, a second layer can be added and further enhanced by folding the second layer in a ripple or concertina style. if you have a three way, the midrange driver is likely to be within a dedicated sealed chamber. In this case, and in general, line the chamber four internal sides (not the baffle) with one layer of underlay felt and tease out some long hair wool to fill the rest of the chamber. All of this is completely adjustable so you can add/remove to your preference. Also, if a three way, the treatment to the bass chamber remains as above and is also completely adjustable to taste. In a bass reflex, port tuning is a must and probably one of the most difficult factors to get right as they can readily give you a pump of overblown bass when the music sound coincides with port frequency. It's a difficult thing to tune out and takes lots of fiddling but is worth it in the end. Having said that, you'll never get it completely right because the controlling criteria is what the sound engineer originally laid down in the recording. I have no doubt there are many of us here who have great sounding systems, but find certain recordings simply fail to work or are spoilt through unwanted bass bloom which is not to do with our set up and very much to do with how the sound engineer laid the recording down.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2015 23:24:41 GMT
I've used open baffle speakers for years - so long in fact that I have no idea what a box speaker in my room would sound like. Started with Magneplanar MG1C nearly 30 years ago. Had to re-work the tweeter ribbon twice, and eventually had to scrap them and buy a pair of Martin Logan's - ES mid/treble and a bass driver in a box. Moved on to a pair of Podiums, a distributed mode full range unit, truly massive. Thence to a pair of Quad ESL57, and then reinforced the bass using open baffle woofers. Now I am using self-built LX521 to Siegfried Linkwitz's design - not cheap, and built as a matter of faith - but they sound quite astonishing www.linkwitzlab.com/LX521/Description.htm and my pair are pictured 3rd down www.linkwitzlab.com/LX521/PhotoGallery.htmThe myth that comes out of this is that you cannot get good or extended bass from an OB speaker. I love to hear your speakers Craig I really like the design of the Open Baffles you built James OB do extended bass well and so do mine. The thing that I am looking at doing relates to room treatment. Linkwitz's design has the speakers residing at a "live" end of the room, with a diffusive end wall (for me heavy curtains), and an infinite room extending behind the listener. That is clearly impractical, so I am looking at covering the end wall with absorbing panels to make it look infinite, at least for as wide a range of frequencies as practical. Specifically these gikacoustics.co.uk/product/gik-acoustics-monster-bass-trap-flexrange-technology/. Available in a wide range of finishes, to match the decor - to maximise WAF if I succeed in the and if I don't
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Post by Sovereign on Mar 23, 2015 23:28:02 GMT
What was your build cost Craig?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2015 0:04:14 GMT
SEAS drive units from Falcon Acoustics www.falconacoustics.co.uk/drive-units-1/seas-drive-units/seas-linkwitz-lx521-orion-driver-sets/linkwitz-lx521-speakers-kit.html £865.51 . Building your own woodwork from 19mm baltic birch ply is the cheapest way, 2 off 2440 x 1220, about £150 if you have the woodwork skills, plus finishing. If not, buy an LX521 woodwork kit made with NC machined parts from www.magiclx521.com/lx521-components.html for €821.10, but you still need to finish them (paint, veneer etc) . You need an electronic crossover; that used to be analogue, but the current approach is a DSP crossover with config files dowloadable from Linkwitz's site. Couple of hundred for the DSP. Plans are about £100, which is Linkwitz's beer money. And you need 8 channels of amplification (4 each for L and R). The ones that seems to be recommended that don't bust the bank are Emotiva XPA-5 emotiva.com/products/amplifiers/xpa-5 . Including shipping of the 32kg each beasts to the UK, and adding VAT comes to about £1,800 So the grand total without cables and connectors is in the region of £3.5-£4k. As I said it was a great act of faith to stump up that lot on a DIY build. I complicated things by building my own power amps based on Doug Self's "blameless" approach. That actually cost me more than buying a pair of XPA-5! An excellent site for building them step by step is here www.ohio.edu/people/schneidw/audio/lx521.html
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2015 6:46:22 GMT
One that I do feel is a myth: Snell speakers only work with valves. I have used them with exposure and other solid state amps on several occasions with great success, I dnt even think they were developed with valve amps when Peter Snelll created them.
The best way to find out with any amp/speaker icombo works is to try it, I have had as many surprises as I have predictable outcomes.
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Post by MartinT on Mar 24, 2015 6:49:29 GMT
Another myth: tweeters need to be made from diamond/unobtanium.
I have heard many tweeters, good and bad, and the one thing I have learned is that there is no perfect material. Titanium and beryllium have impressed, so has diamond but not always. Fact is that a soft dome tweeter can often sound excellent when well matched with other drivers. The old Infinity ribbon type tweeter sounded good to my ears, so it doesn't have to be new tech either. Behind it all, you must have a very clean drive signal with high resolution and lack of harshness or else the tweeter will only replicate it and add its own distortions.
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Post by jandl100 on Mar 24, 2015 7:15:07 GMT
At times, the bass from my OBs is too much and can overwhelm the room. The only OB bass speaker I have had was Dali Skyline 1000 - they had a measured +15dB bass peak. It needed active equalisation to sort that out.
-- actually, that bass peak sounded quite impressive on some music types, but naturally recorded acoustic music immediately showed it up for what it was.
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Post by jandl100 on Mar 24, 2015 7:15:25 GMT
One myth for me is that ported speakers give loose, one-note bass. I agree completely - my speakers are ported - loose one note bass? --- hahahahaaa.
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Post by Sovereign on Mar 24, 2015 8:13:13 GMT
SEAS drive units from Falcon Acoustics www.falconacoustics.co.uk/drive-units-1/seas-drive-units/seas-linkwitz-lx521-orion-driver-sets/linkwitz-lx521-speakers-kit.html £865.51 . Building your own woodwork from 19mm baltic birch ply is the cheapest way, 2 off 2440 x 1220, about £150 if you have the woodwork skills, plus finishing. If not, buy an LX521 woodwork kit made with NC machined parts from www.magiclx521.com/lx521-components.html for €821.10, but you still need to finish them (paint, veneer etc) . You need an electronic crossover; that used to be analogue, but the current approach is a DSP crossover with config files dowloadable from Linkwitz's site. Couple of hundred for the DSP. Plans are about £100, which is Linkwitz's beer money. And you need 8 channels of amplification (4 each for L and R). The ones that seems to be recommended that don't bust the bank are Emotiva XPA-5 emotiva.com/products/amplifiers/xpa-5 . Including shipping of the 32kg each beasts to the UK, and adding VAT comes to about £1,800 So the grand total without cables and connectors is in the region of £3.5-£4k. As I said it was a great act of faith to stump up that lot on a DIY build. I complicated things by building my own power amps based on Doug Self's "blameless" approach. That actually cost me more than buying a pair of XPA-5! An excellent site for building them step by step is here www.ohio.edu/people/schneidw/audio/lx521.htmlI wasn't expecting such an informative answer, but thanks, it puts me acurately in the picture. £3.5-£4K for reference speakers and amplification is not bad at all. Maybe a project for the future.
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