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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2015 18:42:11 GMT
I have had more speakers than I can remember and how much do I "know"? Probably a lot less than I thought I did once. I still have probably only heard a small percentage of available designs on the used market, let alone new.
There are many different design philosophies out there, so I thought it would be fun to discuss in a civilised manner with a view to learning from and appreciating other people's perspectives.
One oft-recounted statement is that a good "big un" will always beat a good "little-un". It's one I don't buy personally because the word "good" depends upon the needs of the listener, their room and their tastes in music". If you listen largely to solo guitar and vocals, you may find a smaller speaker is your ideal.
Another one one for me that I "thought" I knew was that you can't have a good speaker with a complex crossover. If "Good" means a speaker I enjoy and get fulfilment from, then my Spicas have a 5th order crossover with nominal 4ohm impedance which drops well below 3 ohms in places. They sound more lively and agile than any Snell to me, which is higher efficiency and less complex. Isobariks too, are a speaker I love. Not exactly simple in that department. OTOH I do love Snells and many other simple designs. So for me any absolute statement about crossovers is a myth because I have heard speakers that confound it for me.
surely lots of other potential myths to be discussed. Which method is best? Electrostatic, Ribbon, Horn, Reflex, sealed box etc?what about new vs old. Has technology left old speakers behind,mor have we lost our way in the pursuit of WAF?
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Post by John on Mar 22, 2015 18:59:59 GMT
Great thread idea
Here is one Open Baffles do not go down low
Depends on the design, mine go down to 26
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Post by Sovereign on Mar 22, 2015 19:09:53 GMT
Probably my favorite speaker has to be the classic Epos ES 11. Very open, detailed and supreme at imaging. But what I loved about them the most was their immense speed especially on the end of a big Expo rig. They would entertain me for hours. But it was about three years ago that I went over to a large pair of OBs and I've never looked back, but I'd love to get on other pair of ES11's again just for old time sake.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2015 19:10:16 GMT
There is no best type of speaker. It so much depends on the partnering equipment, the room they are used in and musical taste. My favourites are the electrostatics driven by valve amps. They suit the small scale music I tend to like. Baroque, jazz, classical guitar and the like.
I have a big pair of sealed boxes with 12" bass units, a couple of ported pairs with 8" bass units and some small LS35a type KEFs. Each has their strengths but I could probably only live full time with the ESLs or the KEFs.
I haven't heard any speakers made in recent years apart from the Teufels I made from a kit. It took many hours of fiddling about to get them to sound right. Much too bright and forward. That seems to be a comment I hear quite often about modern speakers. I tend to compare the basic sound of a pair of speakers directly to the guitars I make. If, on a good day, I could believe I was listening to a guitar, then I would say its a decent pair of speakers.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2015 19:52:36 GMT
Probably my favorite speaker has to be the classic Epos ES 11. Very open, detailed and supreme at imaging. But what I loved about them the most was their immense speed especially on the end of a big Expo rig. They would entertain me for hours. But it was about three years ago that I went over to a large pair of OBs and I've never looked back, but I'd love to get on other pair of ES11's again just for old time sake. I still haven't heard ES11s. I owned ES14s when the 11 was released and inevitably tended to view them as a cut-down version of the 14 without even considerng they may have their own merits. One to look out for locally. I love the design too. Stunning looking little things IMO Edit: Maybe there's another myth thee too. Is ten biggest. Most expensive speaker in the range always best? Probably not, depending on tastes, room size, amps etc. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2015 19:57:14 GMT
Great thread idea Here is one Open Baffles do not go down low Depends on the design, mine go down to 26 My only marginal experiences of OB sound is the SD1. Now that's a speaker I'd try if I had a bigger room. Heard them a few times in large rooms and thought they had something potentially special.of course the bass driver isn't OB on the SD1 so not a true comtender. I'm surprised more commercial OB speakers haven't made it to market. |
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Post by ChrisB on Mar 22, 2015 20:02:45 GMT
I had SD1s and OBSs and they could both be magical in the right circumstances. I still own some OBS.
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Post by John on Mar 22, 2015 20:05:49 GMT
The big issue with OB in a commercial sense is size. Most people do not want something that big
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Post by MikeMusic on Mar 22, 2015 21:30:40 GMT
Isobariks can overwhelm a room
more in my system improvement thread soon
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Post by MartinT on Mar 22, 2015 21:50:54 GMT
I've been a ported speaker fan for a few decades now. From Cambridge R40 (transmission line) to JBL L-100T (ported), IPL S5TL (transmission line), JM Lab Mezzo Utopia and Usher Be-20 (both ported).
The reason I like ported speakers is that they sound more open in the bass compared with closed boxes to my ears, but they need very careful room placement, positioning and port tuning. However, port tuning/damping is a great tool for getting them to 'fit' the room.
One myth for me is that ported speakers give loose, one-note bass.
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Post by John on Mar 23, 2015 5:11:57 GMT
Standmounts do not do good bass
Most do not go to low but some exceptions like the TAD Reference 1
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2015 8:28:28 GMT
What about bi-wiring. Is it a myth or does it offer real benefits? I can vouch for bi-amping but I have never bi-wired.
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Post by ChrisB on Mar 23, 2015 8:38:09 GMT
As far as I can tell from what others say, most people find bi-wiring to have had no benefit whatsoever. Putting an extra set of terminals on a box was felt by some manufacturers to be something that had to be done when bi-wiring was all over the hi-fi press and somehow, it's become expected in some quarters.
But....
I know of a few speakers where it has given small but very real benefits - the SD Acoustics ones mentioned above, for starters. The original B&W Matrix series too. In the case of the SD OBSs, when I tri-wired them, I got a bit more treble detail and a slightly tighter bass along with small improvements to image placement (something which the OBSs always did very well for me). However, I got much bigger improvements by tilting them back slightly and toeing them in quite acutely.
As for bi-amping, well as you say, that's another thing entirely!
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Post by danielquinn on Mar 23, 2015 9:32:13 GMT
i Bi wire , because my bass driver is directly coupled to the amp .Ie , the speaker cable is driectly soldered to the bass driver at one end and directly soldered to the amp at the other .
it reaps big benefits .
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Post by danielquinn on Mar 23, 2015 9:36:30 GMT
There are more myths in speaker design than anything in my opinion . Here are a few
standing waves are an issue that needs to be dealt with by internal damping
crossovers only effect the music by attenuating frequencies
lossy cabinets are a legitimate design choice .
An anochailly flat frequency response is a design feature to strive for .
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2015 11:50:42 GMT
I've used open baffle speakers for years - so long in fact that I have no idea what a box speaker in my room would sound like. Started with Magneplanar MG1C nearly 30 years ago. Had to re-work the tweeter ribbon twice, and eventually had to scrap them and buy a pair of Martin Logan's - ES mid/treble and a bass driver in a box. Moved on to a pair of Podiums, a distributed mode full range unit, truly massive. Thence to a pair of Quad ESL57, and then reinforced the bass using open baffle woofers. Now I am using self-built LX521 to Siegfried Linkwitz's design - not cheap, and built as a matter of faith - but they sound quite astonishing www.linkwitzlab.com/LX521/Description.htm and my pair are pictured 3rd down www.linkwitzlab.com/LX521/PhotoGallery.htmThe myth that comes out of this is that you cannot get good or extended bass from an OB speaker. |
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Post by Sovereign on Mar 23, 2015 12:41:07 GMT
At times, the bass from my OBs is too much and can overwhelm the room.
What was the cost of the materials for the build?
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Post by pre65 on Mar 23, 2015 13:01:02 GMT
If Rolls Royce were to build OB's the bass would be sufficient. 
Just like my own OB's. 
To be honest, now the GK-71 amps have had their latest upgrades the bass is sufficient, but more tuneful.
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Post by danielquinn on Mar 23, 2015 13:06:03 GMT
Unless you stick them in an aircraft hanger , ob's bass is surely reinforced by proximity to walls and thus if they do bass it is room dependant .
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Post by pre65 on Mar 23, 2015 13:11:20 GMT
Unless you stick them in an aircraft hanger , ob's bass is surely reinforced by proximity to walls and thus if they do bass it is room dependant . Surely ALL speakers are room dependent in some form or other ?  |
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