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Post by ChrisB on Feb 15, 2015 19:04:46 GMT
This is the place to post about Cadmium and the safety, legality and morality of using products containing it. Please keep such things here so as to not derail other threads. Thank you. EDIT - detail added: We have posted a suitable warning in our notices section and also in the LDR Preamp thread: Please see our warning about the use of components containing cadmium here
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Post by jammy on Feb 15, 2015 19:19:18 GMT
CADMIUM is BAD.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2015 19:30:56 GMT
Cadmium is illegal in domestic hi-fi products full stop so your shouldn't use it.
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Post by jammy on Feb 15, 2015 19:35:30 GMT
So what's with the pic of the wee lass poking about in a Cad amp.... Some form of propaganda - Must be safe right...!!! WRONG.
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Post by John on Feb 15, 2015 19:47:44 GMT
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Post by pre65 on Feb 15, 2015 21:59:02 GMT
Cadmium is illegal in domestic hi-fi products full stop so your shouldn't use it. Much as I agree that Cadmium is a nasty substance (amongst many other substances) it certainly is NOT illegal to sell, or use devices that contain it, providing there is no safer alternative.
In the case of the LDR resistors, they come under this heading. Like it, or not, that is true.
I'd be more worried about passive smoking myself.
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Post by pre65 on Feb 15, 2015 22:00:29 GMT
CADMIUM is BAD. So are lots of other commonly used things if not used correctly.
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Post by ChrisB on Feb 16, 2015 0:06:54 GMT
I don't have a horse in this race, but I do like facts. What I don't like is when people say things purely in order to cause disruption. I'm also not a fan of Chinese whispers. Hopefully, we have put a stop to the mischief making. So, in order to prevent the Chinese whispers, let's have some facts. The following is based on my understanding and if I am wrong then please correct me with demonstrable facts. Cadmium is illegal in domestic hi-fi products full stop so your shouldn't use it. This statement is wrong. I think that it is illegal to sell products in the EU which occur in amounts exceeding the established maximum concentration values. It is found perfectly legally in all sorts of places. For example, I will quote the HSE: Where is it found? Cadmium and its compounds are used in many processes and products including:
■ alloyed with copper and other metals in alloys for fire detection systems, electrical cables and in some solders; ■ in pigments for plastics, ceramics and glasses; ■ in stabilisers for polyvinylchloride; ■ as a protective plating on steel; ■ nickel-cadmium battery manufacture.
From Cadmium and you. Working with cadmium: Are you at risk?
Some commonsense advice from me: If anyone finds themselves doing anything with products containing the substance they might be well advised to read that document, whatever the amount concerned.
Nor do I think this is strictly correct in our context: This statement is also wrong. As far as I understand it, it is illegal to sell items which contain cadmium in amounts exceeding the established maximum concentration values within the EU. It is not illegal to purchase them. I don't know about the legality of importing them into the EU, but I think that if you do import them, you are responsible under law for their proper disposal, regardless of what happens between the importation and their disposal. I do not think that it is illegal to own or use them. Another document,which is relevant and often quoted by people who don't even know what RoHS stands for is this one. IT'S TIME FOR FACTS. So, if what I have said above is wrong, then please correct me and provide evidence.PS: Cigarette smoke does contain cadmium.
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Post by danielquinn on Feb 16, 2015 8:05:03 GMT
It is not wrong. But it is misleading.traces of Base metals and chemicals can be found in most things.
Ldr pre amps are illegal to sell in th uk.
The legal to possess is a red hearing. If you can't sell it how can anyone possess it.
And you negate the moral arguement. Imo only a selfish idiot would consider there need to have a pre amp greater than the general good. Good help sovereign's neighbours if some one tells him plutonium preamps are the dogs bollocks.
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Post by ChrisB on Feb 16, 2015 8:20:59 GMT
I am keen to establish facts, as I stated above (twice). The reason being, that there is a lot of confusion and misinformation being bandied about from both sides.
A discussion of the morality of the issue is all fine and good in principle, but how can morality be properly discussed unless the facts are first established?
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Post by danielquinn on Feb 16, 2015 8:43:18 GMT
What's facts. If sovereign tried to sell his pre amp it would be ilegal by virtue of the rhos regulations.
There is a clear ban on the use of cadmium in consumer products. Flouting this ban by importation of parts is irrelevant imo. A bit like defending the possession of ilegal images by saying I didn't take them.
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Post by MartinT on Feb 16, 2015 8:57:14 GMT
It's amazing how the facts are ignored in the cause of emotional grandstanding. Chris has stated the case very clearly. None of those facts have yet been disputed.
I note that no-one has responded to my statement that there are millions of items of old tech out there using Nickel Cadmium batteries, way more Cadmium than is used in all the world's LDRs.
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Post by danielquinn on Feb 16, 2015 9:17:56 GMT
It's amazing how the facts are ignored in the cause of emotional grandstanding. Chris has stated the case very clearly. None of those facts have yet been disputed. I note that no-one has responded to my statement that there are millions of items of old tech out there using Nickel Cadmium batteries, way more Cadmium than is used in all the world's LDRs. do you have a point . fact. ROHS outlaws the commercial selling of LDR pre amps . What relvancy or point do a] Historic products have ? b] the somewhat semantic facts chris highlighted ?
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Post by pre65 on Feb 16, 2015 9:22:14 GMT
I spent a lot of time looking into this matter, and what I found was that things like LDR resistors were allowed "if there was no other product to replace them".
Now, to my knowledge, in the way these LDRs are used, there is no "safe" replacement product available.
AND, if it were illegal to sell them in the UK how do companies like RS components and Farnell (to name just two) manage to list them on their web sites ?
I agree with what has been stated about selling a finished preamp on, and end of life regulations.
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Post by danielquinn on Feb 16, 2015 9:43:29 GMT
Pre amps are two a penny, you do not need LDR for pre amps to exist . . You cannot commercially sell a pre amp with cadmium in it . FACT .
As a component a LDR is exempt from some RHOS obligations and restrictions , hence why it is legal to sell it . Once you put in to pre amp it would become ilegal to sell .
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Post by pre65 on Feb 16, 2015 9:57:03 GMT
Pre amps are two a penny, you do not need LDR for pre amps to exist . . You cannot commercially sell a pre amp with cadmium in it . FACT . As a component a LDR is exempt from RHOS , hence why it is legal to sell it . Once you put in to pre amp it would become ilegal to sell . But, it is not illegal to buy an LDR and use it in a DIY build of a preamp for ones own use. Can we all agree on that one point ?
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Post by danielquinn on Feb 16, 2015 10:29:46 GMT
That I think is a gray area. Strictly speaking Sov is an importer pursuant of ROSH regulations cause he got his from a company outside of the EU and therefore unlike Farnell or RS , they have no duty to comply with importer and distributor obligations . He could therefore be liable for a fine of up to £5000 .
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Post by MartinT on Feb 16, 2015 10:37:57 GMT
fact. ROHS outlaws the commercial selling of LDR pre amps . I'm fairly sure everyone accepts this, so what is the point being made?
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Post by danielquinn on Feb 16, 2015 10:43:53 GMT
Buying from outside of EU is dubious, potentially ilegal and should not be encouraged .
Individuals using them in DIY pre amps is morally questionable and not to be encouraged , condoned or promoted .
Selling the pre amp in the future would be illegal .
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Post by pre65 on Feb 16, 2015 11:47:44 GMT
I don't think it's worth arguing with the "Dunnites" on here.
Their position and views are noted.
Time to move on.
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