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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2018 20:26:23 GMT
I bought the latest Affinity & Cressida issues but i sent them back. Reason? They sound really good and piss over those Arkarma things. Of course they aren't going to feel, look, smell or even sound as good as original. I bulked at bidding on swirls when they were fetching £50. Prices are insane now due to vertigo swirl collectors and most £500 copies probably would not meet my criteria for condition anyway. There are reissues out there that are done properly, Expensive but often cheaper than used. Intervention records have done some interesting titles outside the usual audiophool titles but have to get them direct from Amazon US. Not prog I'm afraid. Murray Head's Nigel lived might be one that may be to your taste and it's pre 1974! Best sounding reissue I have heard as they got the tapes from Murray. Talking digital - are we talking files or CD? Not a fan of files though I played some WAV downloads that sounded decent. Mp3 is unlistenable. Some CDs are sounding pretty good ( not of the loud compressed variety) especially with the modern DACs. You aren't going to get satisfaction with 80's/90's CD players based on the fact I've had some good ones that were tolerable. If you can only have certain titles on CD then Cambridge CXC/Caiman SEG far outperforms vintage in my experience. In the end have to admit vinyl playback has a certain way of reproducing music I find more addictive than any digital, but gap is closing. So I sympathise with your position. It's speakers all the way for me and no headphones. I keep reading complaints about recordings on forums that appear to only irk headphone users such as dropouts and bad balance (as well as highlighting inevitable vinyl imperfections).
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Post by julesd68 on Apr 29, 2018 20:51:39 GMT
Vinyl is less about the music, but more about the experience. Can't agree with that at all Mr B! Digital users don't care more about the music, it's just that vinylists care about other things in addition to the music ...
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Post by julesd68 on Apr 29, 2018 20:53:44 GMT
I bought the latest Affinity & Cressida issues but i sent them back. Reason? They sound really good and piss over those Arkarma things. Of course they aren't going to feel, look, smell or even sound as good as original. I bulked at bidding on swirls when they were fetching £50. Prices are insane now due to vertigo swirl collectors and most £500 copies probably would not meet my criteria for condition anyway. Same for me here - would much prefer a mint re-press on Repertoire than a 'VG' original that has been played to death at student parties ...
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Post by MikeMusic on Apr 29, 2018 20:56:32 GMT
Digital or Litho was on my mind for 30 odd years in print.
Digital has mushroomed from nowhere about 30 years ago Litho has lost huge market share, most of it. All the development is in Digital The world has changed
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Post by julesd68 on Apr 29, 2018 21:03:14 GMT
Digital or Litho was on my mind for 30 odd years in print. Digital has mushroomed from nowhere about 30 years ago Litho has lost huge market share, most of it. All the development is in Digital The world has changed There is plenty of life left in vinyl - Sony opening first record plant in 30 years just one example ...
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Post by MikeMusic on Apr 29, 2018 21:06:31 GMT
Digital or Litho was on my mind for 30 odd years in print. Digital has mushroomed from nowhere about 30 years ago Litho has lost huge market share, most of it. All the development is in Digital The world has changed There is plenty of life left in vinyl - Sony opening first record plant in 30 years just one example ... Different market forces. Litho is usually for large amounts and cheap per unit. (apart from limited print runs and specialities, tiny part of the market) Vinyl is a premium product that can be charged for
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2018 21:25:52 GMT
I bought the latest Affinity & Cressida issues but i sent them back. Reason? They sound really good and piss over those Arkarma things. Of course they aren't going to feel, look, smell or even sound as good as original. I bulked at bidding on swirls when they were fetching £50. Prices are insane now due to vertigo swirl collectors and most £500 copies probably would not meet my criteria for condition anyway. There are reissues out there that are done properly, Expensive but often cheaper than used. Intervention records have done some interesting titles outside the usual audiophool titles but have to get them direct from Amazon US. Not prog I'm afraid. Murray Head's Nigel lived might be one that may be to your taste and it's pre 1974! Best sounding reissue I have heard as they got the tapes from Murray. Talking digital - are we talking files or CD? Not a fan of files though I played some WAV downloads that sounded decent. Mp3 is unlistenable. Some CDs are sounding pretty good ( not of the loud compressed variety) especially with the modern DACs. You aren't going to get satisfaction with 80's/90's CD players based on the fact I've had some good ones that were tolerable. If you can only have certain titles on CD then Cambridge CXC/Caiman SEG far outperforms vintage in my experience. In the end have to admit vinyl playback has a certain way of reproducing music I find more addictive than any digital, but gap is closing. So I sympathise with your position. It's speakers all the way for me and no headphones. I keep reading complaints about recordings on forums that appear to only irk headphone users such as dropouts and bad balance (as well as highlighting inevitable vinyl imperfections). Reason being i find a bit too bright compared to what i know the original sounds like, you see at the end of the day the Original is what i want the albums to sound like. Only Prog CD's i find sound ok are the Esoteric Recordings jobbies, however For some odd reason if i rip a CD into lossless it sounds better than the actual CD it came!! Still dont sound like the original record. I think Chris B could be the only person that might get where im coming from regarding 1st issues. Im sure he's for instance got a 1st Issue of The Black Sabbath album & compared it to a Re-issue being the Spaceship Vertigo or worse a Nems issue & ofc the CD. the 1st issue will win hands down. Its not about what sounds best with other people its about what sounds like the original with me & im afraid it will never happen with digital for me..
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Post by julesd68 on Apr 29, 2018 21:38:46 GMT
My Sabbath collection is a crazy mix of WWA, NEMS (analogue re-issues) and NEMS 180g (digital).
They all sound different but I love them all. Of course the NEMS 180g sound rather different - not 'authentic' as such but has crunching dynamics and bass, sounds great on my system and better than any cd I have.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2018 21:47:14 GMT
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Post by julesd68 on Apr 29, 2018 22:05:40 GMT
Early WWA's of the first four releases used Vertigo stamps, Cat number scratched off the dead wax. Heres on in a Swirl cover, WWA Cat sticker across the Swirl cat Interesting - my copy of the first album has a WWA cover. The sound is stupendous. My other WWA, 'Sabbath Bloody ...' isn't anywhere near as crunchy and big sound wise as I remember.
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Post by ChrisB on Apr 29, 2018 23:40:11 GMT
Well, yes, I do understand Andre's stance on early release copies of older vinyl. Up to a point. My Vertigo copy of the debut Sabbath album (black background inside the gatefold) is a little tired but the surface noise is a tiny price to pay for the massive rich meaty sound. Where I think I differ from most people though, is that I dont really care if I have to buy something on less than the best sounding edition, I just want to own the music I love. If my copy of that Sabbath album disappeared tomorrow, I would probably just buy a CD or, if it had to be vinyl, just whatever reasonable condition copy I could find for a decent price. It's nice to own the best sounding edition available, but I wont seek it out and I won't pay a silly price for any music.
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Post by MartinT on Apr 30, 2018 8:43:41 GMT
My Sabbath collection is a crazy mix of WWA, NEMS (analogue re-issues) and NEMS 180g (digital). So is mine. The first album has amazing sound and, considering it was laid down so quickly, is a remarkably mature work. Not all first issues are worth going for: look at Led Zeppelin, for instance. The Jimmy Page remasters are the ones to go for.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2018 8:50:19 GMT
The first album was recorded at Regent & deffo sounds best. The Proceeding two wewre Island studios, still sound good but dont have the big meaty sound the first has.. Vol.4 was Recorded in the USA. The Production make it sound less like the others imho.
We cant really talk about Remasters when generalising on what sounds good back in the day..
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2018 8:54:17 GMT
Someone needs to bid on that Sabbath because not only does he say its Near mint its actually a swirley with WWA Labels without the massive cost of a 1st issue Swirl.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2018 9:03:21 GMT
Well, yes, I do understand Andre's stance on early release copies of older vinyl. Up to a point. My Vertigo copy of the debut Sabbath album (black background inside the gatefold) is a little tired but the surface noise is a tiny price to pay for the massive rich meaty sound. Well thats nice to know at least one person does not think im talking shit & secondly nice to see you admitted The 1st issue does have a big Meaty sound. That is the precise reason why Re-Issues are inferior & why Digital will never ever sound like that 1st issue. & that is an example of just one album. However when i refer to 1st issues being better sounding, im referring to late 60's/Early 70's albums. No way will i champion a 1st issue released going into the mid 70's & on because its basically down hill with all this at that point.
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Post by dsjr on Apr 30, 2018 13:48:52 GMT
I must be the one of the only ones getting superbly musical results from my digital sources, even the ten quid eBay DAC (with home made supply equivalent to the £40 one on ebay) - this on headphones too which are hardly reticent up top.
The meaty sound of some first pressings are perhaps not as the producer intended apparently, but more a way round the cruder record cutting equipment they had then and the Dansette type record players used most often to play the records back.
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Post by julesd68 on Apr 30, 2018 13:58:12 GMT
Someone needs to bid on that Sabbath because not only does he say its Near mint its actually a swirley with WWA Labels without the massive cost of a 1st issue Swirl. I know it's a rarity but the description didn't fill me with optimism for the condition - BOTH THE VINYL AND THE COVER ARE VERY NEAR MINT CONDITION. THE GATEFOLD AND SPINE PERFECT ,ALSO THE VINYL LOOKS MINT APART FROM THE CLOTH DUST I HAVE PUT ON WIPING OVER. So it's 'very' near mint and they've been wiping it with a cloth!
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Post by julesd68 on Apr 30, 2018 14:01:35 GMT
The meaty sound of some first pressings are perhaps not as the producer intended apparently, but more a way round the cruder record cutting equipment they had then and the Dansette type record players used most often to play the records back. My 'Black Sabbath' WWA pressing has some proper bass unlike a lot of recordings of that era - 'Sabbath Bloody Sabbath' feels lightweight in comparison. If it was a mistake then it's a happy mistake!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2018 14:15:25 GMT
The meaty sound of some first pressings are perhaps not as the producer intended apparently, but more a way round the cruder record cutting equipment they had then and the Dansette type record players used most often to play the records back. Um not true The second Sabbs album was pressed at the exact same plant. within the same year, Yet the first album sounds slightly better. They were recorded at different studios tho. But its clearly nothing to do with record pressing. The Quality of those Swirl Vertigo releases at the time were supremo as were the RCA Neon releases.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2018 14:17:23 GMT
Someone needs to bid on that Sabbath because not only does he say its Near mint its actually a swirley with WWA Labels without the massive cost of a 1st issue Swirl. I know it's a rarity but the description didn't fill me with optimism for the condition - BOTH THE VINYL AND THE COVER ARE VERY NEAR MINT CONDITION. THE GATEFOLD AND SPINE PERFECT ,ALSO THE VINYL LOOKS MINT APART FROM THE CLOTH DUST I HAVE PUT ON WIPING OVER. So it's 'very' near mint and they've been wiping it with a cloth! I hear you but in my experience if the covers are as good a condition so old as that the Record will most likely be. You can march it back no probs if not..
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