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Post by MartinT on Jun 17, 2024 8:54:49 GMT
Getting more complex. Good thing you can do the crossovers via active means.
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Post by speedysteve on Jun 17, 2024 9:21:49 GMT
Getting more complex. Good thing you can do the crossovers via active means. Yeah, I'm not sure how much more complex as the drivers I will add - another LF and 2 more MFs are in union with the existing ones.. same inputs, same frequency etc. It could be there is no change - the original acoustic design is for full compliment of course. Going to be interesting finding out.. It also simplifies the backbox interaction with the cone centre, as I will no longer need to seal off half the backbox volume..
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Post by speedysteve on Jun 17, 2024 11:23:57 GMT
On the other hand, I should probably measure the SPL capabilities of what I have with just the 1 LF driver and 2 MFs.. Before throwing drivers at it.. Really going to need another 6dB on LF / MF? It's not like we'll want PA volumes in the open air come September. How have other speakers faired at such halls? I can only relate to Scalford in a very large room with my 1st 5 way conical horn effort. No SPL issues there, but they were more efficient than the SH50s being all fully front loaded and even tighter dispersion angle. The LF cone isn't moving much at all at loud listening room volumes. The MF even less - hardly at all. The HF being a compression driver will be loud enough no matter what @ ~115dB/W. In room might not tell me much as there's too much room effect? Could try though - Motorsport ear plugs at the ready! Outside at 10m distance and a couple of metres off the ground could be much more instructive. Like this, but further away for an SPL test. The SH50, 50 degree angle will give plenty of direct sound still. Might be good to dial the XO PEQs in like this too in free space, as the hall is a much more free space than my room! Can then have both settings and see which is best on the day.. Have to do some disassembly, lifting and reassembly 🙂 All part of learning and evolving.
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Post by MartinT on Jun 17, 2024 11:34:01 GMT
You honestly don't need a lot of power as the hall is not a great acoustic so we end up not playing systems loud.
I don't think you will need the additional drivers at all.
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Post by speedysteve on Jun 17, 2024 14:29:43 GMT
That's good to know.
You've been there with other speakers so good to hear experiences.
I guess they were all radiating drivers that would have more secondary reflection issues than horns The room is clappy maybe?
Getting the upper LF, MF and HF up off the floor helps with that. Hard to do with trad hifi cab speakers and you would kill the bass they have.
12m is quite a good length room though - height I'm guessing by the look of it is around 4m?
The room at Scalford was similar shaped. The directivity of horns helps keep the sound focused where you want it.
Forgot to ask
Are the listening people sitting down or standing up?
How many?
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Post by MartinT on Jun 17, 2024 14:52:16 GMT
Yes, all previous speakers were cone drivers and the room is clappy / flutter echo live.
Listeners sitting down. We only had around 12-15 seats but there are more if needed.
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Post by speedysteve on Jun 17, 2024 15:47:40 GMT
Ah that's good to know.
I guess it doesn't matter how it sounds in the blind spot around the L.
What was the room mode situation like?
The calculator I use can't work out an L shape.
The straight 6 X 12 etc look good. Largely because of the height of the room.
At Scalford the sound was good on Sunday due to the number of people in damping the room. People are good absorbers.
I can of course tune the treble down easily for over bright conditions.
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Post by MartinT on Jun 17, 2024 17:10:56 GMT
We didn't have any very bassy speakers so I can't remember accurately.
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Post by speedysteve on Jun 17, 2024 17:32:09 GMT
Yes, no probs.
With a smaller listening area can try the sub in various spots..
The DIYaudio guys who've built these things and use them in a commercial manner reckon the 1 LF and 2 MF drivers will be fine SPL wise. Aiming for 80 to 90dB average, they should do it as are, no problem. Saves work.
Just the sub to build..
Also builders tressles will be high enough - I only need 2 more and already have a use for them😂
Will buy next time there's a deal on..
Much more stable than tripod stands.
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Post by speedysteve on Jun 19, 2024 16:31:03 GMT
The die is cast! I have the Lab 12 driver coming for the tapped horn. Also came across a pair of lightly used Eminence Kappa 12 drivers (identical to the ones I already have), so they will be plumbed into the opposing side with taps and ports as per.. This will really simplify the back box reflex chamber sealing. Also came across these cutaway drawings of the SH50. You can really see what's what (You'll like these Martin 🙂) Could print them out and have them on an info board for the V-Hall.
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Post by MartinT on Jun 19, 2024 18:16:21 GMT
Very nice. I guess the Kappas will be only very lightly stressed in such a configuration.
In the absence of crossovers, will you parallel them?
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Post by speedysteve on Jun 19, 2024 20:06:46 GMT
Very nice. I guess the Kappas will be only very lightly stressed in such a configuration. In the absence of crossovers, will you parallel them? Do you mean connect in parallel rather than in series? In parallel the impedance would be ~4ohms - a nice load for the amp. In series it'd be 16ohms - nice for valves not so nice for silicon. The MFs are done in parallel.
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Post by MartinT on Jun 19, 2024 20:40:02 GMT
Yes, I thought so. My Ushers are 4 ohms because the two 11" bass drivers are paralleled. A good load for the high current Belles, too.
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Post by speedysteve on Jun 19, 2024 21:01:53 GMT
Some I've come across in my searches for drivers for various projects, particularly PA drivers are available in 16ohms, so when parallelled they will be 8ohm, or in quad 4ohm.
The Vitavox S2s are 15ohm, something to do with a longer coil and speaker cable losses? That might be rubbish though!
The Raal Lazy Ribbons can be 3.5, 5, 7, 10 or 14ohm, depending on which terminal you solder onto.
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Post by speedysteve on Jun 20, 2024 12:37:08 GMT
Eminence Lab12 is here. It's a wee beasty! Heavy, with cast ali frame. Huge cone suspension roll for all that air moving deep bass creating Xmax! Will put the cutting list in for the wood now.
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Post by speedysteve on Jun 20, 2024 19:14:26 GMT
While I have the SH50s apart, I figured I might a well add the extra MF drivers - so it's all balanced. I'll be wiring the 4 MFs thus
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Post by speedysteve on Jul 1, 2024 18:11:22 GMT
Before any sub work, I got ‘full on’ interested. Here is the Christmas tree DIY SH50 (full complement of 7 drivers). All went pretty smoothly. Trial fitting This lot weighs 37.5kgs. The rear chamber weighs 20kgs. So 57.5kgs in total. 2 more MFs X 1 more LF driver. Extra taps and ports etc. The best bit with this format is it obviates the need to halve the rear chamber volume. This simplified things. I took the opportunity to use the 6 bolt securing method - ala Danley. Long bolts through the rear and into the horn section secured by threaded nuts. This is a much more superior way of locking the two halves together. I also have a screw in each corner just to pull the rear onto the sealing gasket. Initial listening impressions next.
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Post by MartinT on Jul 1, 2024 18:56:37 GMT
Great stuff, Steve.
Keep it going. Looking forward to your listening impressions.
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Post by speedysteve on Jul 1, 2024 20:30:20 GMT
Initial impressions were good. Just plonked down with no DSP filter changes, the tonal balance is still fine. Turned up - the bass, but also the mids have apparently taken on a new authority, but the delicate stuff is really nice too. I was a bit worried the extra MF taps might mess the HF up somehow - need not have worried. The Danley design holding true. Sure looks the part with 4 LF taps and 4 ports! 2 X 12" 50Hz to 325Hz sure move some air with more authority. I measured and the extra drivers didn't mess anything up! I did have to turn the gain down on the new 2xLF side 2 clicks. As to be expected, that side is running at 4ohm with double the cone area. The new MF X4 drivers at 8ohm load, are the same volume as the X2 at 4ohm. Near as damnit. That's makes some sense too. Only one side done but I get the sense the new side really integrates effortlessly with the Tapped horn subs. If you like underpinned mid and deep bass this is the system for you. Still has beguiling MF and HF horn action detail and resolution of course. Of all my DIY creations I really love these MEH horn speakers. They do do much right and so little wrong! The other side is going to take a while to catch up. Need to make a new ear chamber as it was a half lash up the first time around. That and the are virtually no 5" sealed back drivers available at the moment. There's 1 left at my supplier. I require 2! Could buy a non sealed and seal it - best way GRP done upside down to ensure nothing gets on the rear of the cone.. messy and faff. Will keep looking out for a supply I think. A full compliment of taps and ports
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Post by speedysteve on Jul 1, 2024 20:49:01 GMT
Just running though my mid bass test playlist. News and Six blade knife kicking ass! Here's the list Not sure what the piano piece is doing in there😂 wrong playlist
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