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Post by zippy on Sept 29, 2014 18:41:33 GMT
I don't dispute the improvements necessarily, just that the amount of money asked does not to my mind justify them. Nearly missed this. It's a good question to ask. I've just ordered a bundle of AMR Gold fuses. Five of them will go in key equipment cables in the main replay chain (the five components which are connected to the regenerator).
So, for the cost of £75, what else could I spend it on in my system to yield the improvement I expect to hear?
I was mainly thinking of £1000 cables etc - I'd find it more difficult to argue that fancy AMR fuses at £15 a time are not vfm (as long as they do actually do something). Worth a punt at that price |
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Post by MartinT on Sept 29, 2014 18:42:09 GMT
There is no way imo that these minor improvements can be increasing the pleasure of listening. Since you're not me, you cannot possibly know that. Fact is, one £15 AMR fuse has increased my pleasure quite measurably, so what's not to like? |
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Post by MartinT on Sept 29, 2014 18:44:27 GMT
I was mainly thinking of £1000 cables etc - I'd find it more difficult to argue that fancy AMR fuses at £15 a time are not vfm (as long as they do actually do something). Cables are another discussion for another time. The AMR Golds are definitely £15 each. They do something for me, so as I've just said to DQ, what's not to like? |
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Post by Chris on Sept 29, 2014 20:12:49 GMT
Aye,you REALLY go for it with this stuff MartinT!! Each to their own..... However,it could be one fuse and ten pints of beer. THATS what's not to like!  |
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Post by MartinT on Sept 29, 2014 20:46:53 GMT
That would be pretty rough beer there, mate!
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Post by Chris on Sept 29, 2014 21:14:31 GMT
Be a bloody rough head that's for sure!!
Spend it on a carry out at Tesco then....4 big bottles of Innes and Gunn please!!
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Post by MartinT on Sept 29, 2014 21:20:03 GMT
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Post by John on Sept 30, 2014 6:25:25 GMT
Innes and Gunn make some nice beer
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Post by Chris on Sept 30, 2014 19:01:08 GMT
Innes and Gunn make SUPERB beer mate!
One of Edinburghs finest products.
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Post by MartinT on Oct 2, 2014 18:34:23 GMT
Synergistic Research Red
I was sent two of these to try as well as a whole bagful of AMR Golds. You can either buy the website's enthusiastic 'science' or you could believe it uses fish scales from the people of Tharg, it doesn't matter. One thing is clear: they are very good indeed and they are expensive.
Tonight, I replaced one fuse at a time to complete the whole SACD/CD replay chain:
1. SR Red replacing AMR Gold in regenerator cable (Coherent 6D): a small but definite improvement in fine detail, more rasp in close mic'd human voice 2. SR Red replacing SR 20 in power amp cable (MCRU Ultimate HC): a step up in overall dynamics and sense of space in a quiet soundstage 3. AMR Gold replacing Sound Bar* in preamp cable (MCRU No. 9): the smallest discernible step up in clarity, smallest overall change 3. AMR Gold replacing Sound Bar* in SACD player cable (MCRU No. 9): an appreciable improvement in fine detail, especially where the soundstage is a clearly audible space
*I've never heard of the green Sound Bars originally supplied in the MCRU No. 9 cables.
The summary effect of four fuse changes is noticeable and has raised the bar yet again in my replay performance. The SR Red costs £57.
I'll see how things settle over the next 24 hours and will then work on the analogue chain tomorrow, as well as ancillaries like my Sky HD box and Pioneer Blu-ray player. |
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Post by zippy on Oct 3, 2014 13:21:50 GMT
When companies come up with a product like this, how do you reckon they do it ?
Do they start with theory based on sound understanding of electronics, then work out how to put that into practice ?
Or do they simply 'play about' with all sorts of combinations and treatments until they have something they figure is an improvement ?
I fear the latter is the case, and part of my scepticism as indicated above is that I want to understand WHY something sounds better, and the techno babble that they put out really puts me off (Quantum Tunneling anyone ?)
- it's the scientist in me, I need to know !!!
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Post by MartinT on Oct 3, 2014 14:08:18 GMT
I've often wondered the same thing, Chris. At least fuses can have much science applied, but how do you think some of the more left-field accessories were invented, like the Electromagnetic Circuit Transducer, or cryogenic treatment of cables, or indeed the zapping of fuses with 20MV?
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Post by danielquinn on Oct 3, 2014 14:17:42 GMT
When companies come up with a product like this, how do you reckon they do it ? Do they start with theory based on sound understanding of electronics, then work out how to put that into practice ? Or do they simply 'play about' with all sorts of combinations and treatments until they have something they figure is an improvement ? I fear the latter is the case, and part of my scepticism as indicated above is that I want to understand WHY something sounds better, and the techno babble that they put out really puts me off (Quantum Tunneling anyone ?) - it's the scientist in me, I need to know !!! Nope they read forums and go , o goody gullible people who will pay good money for dubious products , lets sell some . |
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Post by MartinT on Oct 3, 2014 14:24:28 GMT
Nope they read forums and go , o goody gullible people who will pay good money for dubious products , lets sell some . I think you're very wide of the mark, for the simple reason that most people (certainly in this country) won't spend money without hearing a return on their investment, and then want a discount. We keep hearing about snake oil products in hi-fi but really, such companies go under very quickly indeed if they don't have a demonstrably saleable product to offer. |
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Post by danielquinn on Oct 3, 2014 14:44:11 GMT
There is no valid explanation as the efficacy of these things . Not necessarily a bad thing . However , it doesnt matter if you get a hit rate of 1 sale and 4 return cause the mark up will be astonishing . You will always sell some because they work on a pyscho-suggestion level .
If you gave me £1,000,000 i would bet that the efficacy of these products is psychological . If I broke in to your house in the middle of nite and removed them I would bet that million that you wouldn't be able to tell id taken them .
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Post by ChrisB on Oct 3, 2014 15:00:48 GMT
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Post by ChrisB on Oct 3, 2014 15:03:45 GMT
The point is, whether they have an effect or not, they give Martin a better listening experience. As it's he who is enjoying the music more (for whatever reason) and his money that's being spent, why should it give anyone any cause for concern?
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Post by danielquinn on Oct 3, 2014 15:15:05 GMT
The point is, whether they have an effect or not, they give Martin a better listening experience. As it's he who is enjoying the music more (for whatever reason) and his money that's being spent, why should it give anyone any cause for concern? I dont have any problems with that at all . my issues are in any claims that extends the efficacy of these products in time or place . They worked for me , try them you can get your money back if they dont is the stuff of hifi fora . However , if i started advocating the benefit of precious metal fuses i would expect , nay demand , that people did not take me seriously and questioned my sanity . |
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Post by ChrisB on Oct 3, 2014 15:19:42 GMT
If that's the case, then it then brings to mind the question as to why exactly you spend any time at all on such fora? But that's probably a subject for another thread.
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Post by danielquinn on Oct 3, 2014 15:46:30 GMT
If that's the case, then it then brings to mind the question as to why exactly you spend any time at all on such fora? But that's probably a subject for another thread. Please feel free to start it . i like a good arguement I can appreciate your desire to stick up for your friend mr T , but That is plain stupid !!!!! refusing to believe in the general efficacy of precious metal fuses equates to hifi fora being useless .
there is much more to hifi fora that foo Horatio. |
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