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Post by MartinT on Oct 26, 2023 16:02:41 GMT
This subject keeps coming up, so I have a crossover discussion point that straddles Hi-Fi and Music. The thread is here, but it could easily be in the General Music or Classical Music sections.
There seem to be good reasons for suggesting that design choices should be different depending on which is your primary source of musical pleasure. On the other hand, you get people like me who appreciate both types of music equally (huge generalisation here, so forgive me). Where do you stand on this? Can a well-designed system reproduce all types of music equally well, or are there practical limitations that lead you to choices that optimise the system one way or another?
I'm thinking of different sources, valves versus transistor amps, dynamic, electrostatic, horn or ribbon speakers. How did you choose and do you find your less preferred music still plays well? Dive in!
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Post by daytona600 on Oct 26, 2023 16:12:24 GMT
Mahler or Metallica , Puccini or Plastikman Full range dynamic neutral system should play any music
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Post by MartinT on Oct 26, 2023 16:16:24 GMT
Full range dynamic neutral system should play any music My system should do that, too. However, does it play chamber music as well as, say, Jerry's MBL speaker system? Should it? |
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Post by MikeMusic on Oct 27, 2023 18:43:51 GMT
I would think a good system should do both equally or almost equally well
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Post by MartinT on Oct 27, 2023 19:13:34 GMT
OK, that's two of you say that a good system should do it all well. I am not saying I disagree with you, but I think there are others out there with opposing views, too.
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Post by julesd68 on Oct 27, 2023 20:38:21 GMT
Let them make themselves known forthwith!  |
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Post by Slinger on Oct 27, 2023 21:42:57 GMT
The best system should reproduce the source material transparently, with no added warmth or colouration of any sort. Consequently a good system should be able to play all sorts of music equally well provided it was recorded properly.
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Post by MartinT on Oct 27, 2023 22:13:29 GMT
The best system should reproduce the source material transparently, with no added warmth or colouration of any sort. Wow, it's like you quoted me directly  |
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Post by Slinger on Oct 27, 2023 22:33:51 GMT
The best system should reproduce the source material transparently, with no added warmth or colouration of any sort. Wow, it's like you quoted me directly I'm not sure if that's a case of " great minds think alike" or " fools seldom differ". |
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Post by julesd68 on Oct 28, 2023 3:42:43 GMT
I remember my old vinyl system with tubes and Tannoys - was fabulous with classical I thought at the time but I always got frustrated that it couldn't rock hard enough and the bass was too loose and recessed. Just wasn't the all rounder that I needed.
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Post by John on Oct 28, 2023 4:22:24 GMT
First of all I think designing a system is hard, for a good few years on my audio journey I understood what I did not like and only had a small idea of what I did like in terms of sound,
When I got to a place I was happy with it could do most music justice but it was very much a system that suited what I enjoyed listening too
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Post by MartinT on Oct 28, 2023 9:53:41 GMT
I understood what I did not like and only had a small idea of what I did like in terms of sound So true, it takes time and you need to bat away influences and opinions that don't match your needs. Dealers are far too quick to propose equipment without taking any care about what you listen to. I could think of megabucks equipment, like Constellation and Magico, that would make me weep at the wasted money. |
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Post by palace on Oct 28, 2023 12:20:43 GMT
I would think a good system should do both equally or almost equally well Unfortunately I was unable to multi-quote, I would guess I fall into the play anything camp. My eclectic musical tastes include 50's & 60's rock then Bowie, Beatles Bread 1950's 1960's classical recordings particularly Melodiya/EMI recordings then split classical into chamber & organ, symphonies, same with popular music, then Indian both Hindustani & Carnatic, a little jazz, plus anything I like, I've run out of pigeon holes now My system does them well though the organ music & deadmau5 does stretch it a bit. |
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Post by MartinT on Oct 28, 2023 12:44:00 GMT
classical recordings particularly Melodiya/EMI recordings When I went to the Soviet Union in 1984 I enjoyed a trip to the Melodiya store in Nevsky Prospekt in Leningrad (as St Petersburg was then called). The store was extremely old fashioned with just a big counter where you asked for records. You can imagine the fun I had saying 'Shostakovich' and 'Tchaikovsky' to the girl who served me. We had no common language but she came back with loads of records and I chose mostly the symphonies. I can read Cyrillic to a decent degree so I could spot them among the stuff she brought forward. The total cost was laughably cheap and the only problem I had was packing them and carrying them back on the flight. Some of them were superb performances (Mravinsky, Kondrashin) but the pressings were mostly not of great quality. |
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Post by palace on Oct 28, 2023 13:19:35 GMT
classical recordings particularly Melodiya/EMI recordings When I went to the Soviet Union in 1984 I enjoyed a trip to the Melodiya store in Nevsky Prospekt in Leningrad (as St Petersburg was then called). The store was extremely old fashioned with just a big counter where you asked for records. You can imagine the fun I had saying 'Shostakovich' and 'Tchaikovsky' to the girl who served me. We had no common language but she came back with loads of records and I chose mostly the symphonies. I can read Cyrillic to a decent degree so I could spot them among the stuff she brought forward. The total cost was laughably cheap and the only problem I had was packing them and carrying them back on the flight. Some of them were superb performances (Mravinsky, Kondrashin) but the pressings were mostly not of great quality. I had a wonderful time in 80's-Nauties in charity shops, traditionally Ealing post WW2 had a large Polish community, subsequently other Poles & Eastern Europeans settled in Ealing, so any of the local charity shops where I saw a potential purchase I would call out for help as all people of a certain age spoke & read Russian as it was compulsory in schools in the old USSR, some of the Melodiya recordings were fairly well pressed though the EMI recordings where master tapes were sent to Hayes Middx. master tapes were also sent to harmoni mundi in France again good pressings. I have a particular love of the conductor Yevgeny Svetlanov his recordings tend to be simply miked which I prefer. An aside: My only connection with Russia was In the early 1960's as a 12/13 year old I wrote to the Kremlin in Moscow asking for information explaining having seen the Russian Exhibition at Olympia in London I was going to do a project on Russia at school, they sent me a very large box full of books & brochures sadly arriving 4 or 5 months after the project was handed in. |
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Post by nicholas on Oct 28, 2023 14:58:05 GMT
Designing a system for classical and modern music was the goal for my system as I embarked on my audio adventure many decades ago. Many iterations (fits and starts) later the current rig not only excels at both classical and modern playback but has emerged as a competent theater experience as well.
When we moved into our current residence 24 years ago we were fortunate to have a 14' X 20' room with 10' ceiling that we could dedicate to music and media. From there a litany of equipment was auditioned arriving at our latest destination that includes room treatments and state of the art electronics. An incredible Apollon amplifier can be switched to serve either music from the dedicated source observed below in my equipment list or video media originating from a Lyngdorf MP40 preprocessor through an Epson 4K projector. A 108" electric screen descends to accommodate video material.
The cabling behind my equipment rack is a sight to behold and defies any and all attempts at permanent organization... but the system simply rocks with any source you could imagine. The journey has largely been a joy but the final result is complete gratification.
Way back when I couldn't have imagined what I take for granted today. And, in much the same way, I can't imagine what might be coming down the line next...
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Post by MartinT on Oct 29, 2023 13:02:24 GMT
In earlier days, I used to think (as did most people then) that a system must be matched to your preferred music. Obvious areas would be valve electronics rather than transistor, and electrostatic or horn speakers rather than dynamic.
I know that any system should be able to play any music, but is it always optimal?
Can Quad electrostatics really reproduce full frequency bass? What about Lowther horns? Is it necessary to reproduce bass for your musical tastes?
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Post by John on Oct 29, 2023 14:11:08 GMT
To a degree I see this as sound preferences. Take for instance really large horns. They can engulf you in the music like nothing else, but certain other sound preferences I value they are not going to do as well.
I think a well balanced system will do most of it really well, but as soon as you specialise, it will excel in one area, at the risk of affecting other areas.
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Post by palace on Oct 29, 2023 15:22:54 GMT
In earlier days, I used to think (as did most people then) that a system must be matched to your preferred music. Obvious areas would be valve electronics rather than transistor, and electrostatic or horn speakers rather than dynamic. I know that any system should be able to play any music, but is it always optimal? Can Quad electrostatics really reproduce full frequency bass? What about Lowther horns? Is it necessary to reproduce bass for your musical tastes? Quad 57's as Peter walker said " they will produce bass with the right amplifier." Which in my case is a Rogue Atlas Magnum, using test CD's where the frequency is listed 30hz is quite audible, however not like a car I had in the 1990's with 500+ available rms watts driving 17 speakers including 2 x 12" double magnet subs pressed paper cones brick wall filtered 20hz in a ported double box & loud enough to keep a BlackWall Tunnel traffic jam entertained for 2 hour's when there were calls to turn volume up so people could dance on the road. The bass produced by my OTA Quad 57's is good enough to make a symphony, Floyd or Prodigy & especially double bass sound right, a Cathedral 32ft organ pipe not so much though few speakers can, the new Lowther speakers apparently can, as can the new Coppice speakers using Lowther cones. They like my Quads have been made to, True not to earth shattering levels to the relief of my downstairs neighbours. |
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Post by MartinT on Oct 29, 2023 17:49:22 GMT
Ok, I'm going to show my hand here. A friend had Quad 989 electrostatics, with the bigger panels for better bass. They were incredible for voice and chamber music and pretty good at arty rock like some of the Joni Mitchell albums. However, they were far too tame to really rock hard and did not generate any real deep bass, just the sound of bass if you get what I mean. They were also not great at full orchestral music like much of the Shostakovich symphonies as the macro dynamics are somewhat compressed.
For my tastes, the Quads are not good all-rounders but excellent in their strengths. When I come across them in a system I tend to assume they were selected for their strengths in the type of music I've mentioned above.
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