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Post by MartinT on Jul 11, 2014 16:34:24 GMT
I know it might sound naïve, but I'm really only interested in the product. Whether it's a loaner or something I've purchased, I'll still report on it as I find and any product not coming up to scratch will soon be moved on. The beauty of having no agenda is . . . having no agenda. It still doesn't satisfy everyone, though.
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Post by pre65 on Jul 11, 2014 16:34:54 GMT
I suspect much of the ire generated on this thread is aimed at a particular individual who is not shy about resorting to aggressive marketing tactics to promote his business. Are we talking about DB ? |
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Post by MartinT on Jul 11, 2014 16:35:38 GMT
No, we're not (any longer). Back to the product, please.
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Post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew on Jul 11, 2014 16:44:19 GMT
Well Martin this part of the thread was stimulated by the little exchange a few pages back and yesterday between Frank and MCRU, so as far as I am concerned discussion has been about that. BTW I think Chris dealt with that very well and we will see if he actually responds to Chris's well chosen words spelled out in capitals. If he does you will hear no more comment from me on this matter. BUT if the last couple of years are anything to go by he will just go into a sulk for a few days and then think of a way around it and to do it again.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2014 17:48:12 GMT
Ah I see, I assume the cost will come down if you go into production and the bulk buy price is £6k per 500m. How do you come to that conclusion. Anyway it is wrong. Richard I'm not sure whether you mean that you won't get a bulk discount ,or the material prices I quoted from your forum are wrong From your forum: "New NVA Interconnect
by Dr Bunsen Honeydew » Sun Jun 29, 2014 2:29 pm
I have been talking recently about SDSC (super dooper sound cord ) but I have also been pursuing another line of exploration. I discovered a cable back in the early 90's that was better by a considerable degree to SP which was going to be a Statement Range interconnect only using SMA connectors, but decided it was too expensive to buy the raw cable and make, and also I had no chance of converting everyone to SMA over RCA Phono. So project was shelved. I have just been re-investigating it with the manufacturer of the cable, which is only available to order in 500m reels at about £6k a reel, and only made to order. It has Goretex dielectric and will be fitted with Faraday cage type additional screening.
It will obviously be more expensive than SSP and will be called T.I.S. (The Interconnect Statement) cable, and will be built with RCA Phonos.
The future NVA interconnects will be SC - SSC - SDSC - TIS.
SDSC will replace SSP at the same price as I am fed up with people breaking (yes it still happens) SSP. Slightly different but at least the equal of SSP.
Final price of TIS to be confirmed. It wont be cheap and probably pretty near SLIC type prices, but raw cable cost and cost of holding stock contributes greatly to this." 500m reel (min order) @ circa £6k a reel is £12/m or £24/m a stereo pair for the cable plus RCA phonos, sundries, labour, OH&P (incl.financing). The construction of the cable caught my attention as one of similar construction was the only cable I've ever heard that made a discernable improvement to the sound of a system (not entirely sure why as it was not my system and may just have been a correcting resistance/capacitance/impedance issue) but, at "near SLIC type prices" I struggle to see the VFM that for instance studio type cables and indeed your own SC offer. FWIW the SLIC also fails my VFM test. |
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Post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew on Jul 11, 2014 18:13:08 GMT
Well ask MCRU how much a 500m reel of his raw cable costs him, as I understand it is peanuts and the cost is in labour and time. Would you be willing to invest £6k in raw cable that will require pretty much as much labour and time to finish as the SLIC with no guarantee people will like them and buy them, how much is that risk worth and how much is required to amortise that stock level.
The SC is different it is just cable on a reel and just requires some plugs soldered on. You have me on a sensitive spot about this cable and also the LS7 speaker cable. If was asked even 5 years ago if I would produce cables at this price I would laugh and say no way. The change has been finding cables that do justify that cost (but still the law of diminishing returns apply). I would be fine about saying no cable can justify that cost because I have said it many times myself. AND the cable will not be spammed or shilled the way we are talking about here.
My problem with all this is nothing about cable quality, or sound, it is about what I consider to be illegal and immoral selling tactics as employed by MCRU, which most people seems to agree with me about.
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Post by . on Jul 11, 2014 19:36:09 GMT
Hi Marco (it's Martin BTW). I understand, I didn't realise you used Klotz cables, I thought you were a VDH kinda guy. And I'm not judging anyone's choice, I just didn't get the whole picture until your reply  Thanks BTW, still settling in but the move was definitely worth the effort! Hi Martin, Sorry I didn't get your name right. Glad you've settled in well. My last post wasn't directed at you, so no worries. I only use VDH as speaker cables - all my other cables are from various different manufacturers. In terms of listening to Slic (which you asked me about), I had an agreement with someone on AoS for us to swap cables for a while (my Klotz for his Slic), which would've allowed both me to assess the Slic and him to assess the Klotz (with my choice of plugs, from MS Audio), and report our (frank and honest) findings on the forum, which of course would've been interesting, but said person reneged on our agreement, as a result of the Slic cable supplier not wanting me to have any access to them. You can draw your own conclusions as to why that happened, but it seems that, for some traders, only 'rave reviews' of certain products are acceptable, and honest opinions of them, if they're in any way critical, are unwelcome. I shall say no more on the matter! Marco. I fear you have somewhat skewed the truth of the matter, so I will set the record straight. You made the swap suggestion during a PRIVATE telephone call between yourself and myself. I agreed to it in principle during that PRIVATE conversation, that is until you decided to post it publicly on your forum, which I had not agreed to. Meanwhile, I had actually purchased with my own money the aforesaid Klotz cable and fitted upgrade plugs, so I saw no true purpose in sending my SLIC cable to you when I already had the cable in my possession to be swapped with. You then deemed it necessary to DEMAND, PUBLICLY, on your forum that I take a photograph to prove that I had this cable. Who the heck do you think you are, demanding from anyone that they carry out your orders and humiliate them in the process? I will not be treated like that by you or anyone else. We then had a PRIVATE message exchange to say that I will not be sending my SLIC to you because I took up your suggestion of taking some overspill cable building and that the person I was doing it for would be displeased. That in fact was an actual lie because he said no such thing. The real reasons why I didn't send the cable because A) I already had the Klotz so I knew what it sounds like and B) Why should you be exempt from a SHORT TERM parting of your plentiful cash (as you so often boast) for 30 days like everyone else? or, C) Ask the vendor himself for a loan of the SLIC cable? I'll say why, it's because you mistakenly believe that your "influence" as a forum owner entitles you to have plenty of freebies that you don't have to pay for and one vendor in particular is well aware of, hence your reticence to ask directly for a loan cable, despite your meeting face-to-face on a couple of occasions. That allegation is unproven and hearsay of course, but it would surprise me not one bit if it were true. I can only speculate why you have now chosen to post these matters on this forum something that was PRIVATE AND CONFIDENTIAL between yourself and myself. It certainly wasn't because I made a comment about a cable I have no respect for and which I have made no secret of either directly to you or anyone else. If you are suggesting I have offended you by mention of this cable then I retract not one word of what I said, because as far as I was aware your endless search for a giant killing cable on the cheap had long since moved on from the Klotz anyway, plus of course I am entitled to call it what I like because in fact I own it - your rules as I recall. So you see, I have not one iota of respect for someone who has no respect whatsoever for me and that's why I have signed out of AoS permanently. |
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Post by Marco on Jul 11, 2014 19:57:36 GMT
Frank, that's so much bullshit, it's untrue. I'm not going to get into a big argument with you about it, though, as this is not the time or place.
However, I have proof of what you told me about MCRU in an email you sent, which I can forward (as unedited proof, because you can't tamper with emails when they're forwarded directly to a recipient), to anyone who'd like me to do so. Before that happens, do you deny writing these words:
"I don't what what issues you and David may or may not have, but the man is not at all happy about me sending my SLIC to you. I seem to think that he perceives you to be anti him and anti SLIC at the same time. It is my cable of course and I can do what I like with it, but I do not intend to tread on his corns while I desperately NEED the extra money I get for cable building."
?
I don't like being called a liar when I'm not.
Marco.
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Post by Dave on Jul 11, 2014 20:00:32 GMT
This is not cool guys and it really needs to stop now...
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Post by Marco on Jul 11, 2014 20:03:31 GMT
Indeed, Dave - and I'll stop right now, but I simply want to prove that I'm not a liar.
Marco.
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Post by . on Jul 11, 2014 20:09:37 GMT
Frank, that's so much bullshit, it's untrue. I'm not going to get into a big argument with you about it, though, as this is not the time or place. However, I have proof of what you told me about MCRU in an email you sent, which I can forward to anyone who'd like me to do so. Before that happens, do you deny writing these words: "I don't what what issues you and David may or may not have, but the man is not at all happy about me sending my SLIC to you. I seem to think that he perceives you to be anti him and anti SLIC at the same time. It is my cable of course and I can do what I like with it, but I do not intend to tread on his corns while I desperately NEED the extra money I get for cable building." ? I don't like being called a liar when I'm not. Marco. If you bothered to read what I had actually written, I did not call YOU a liar, I said I told a lie. I simply highlighted how you were untrustworthy with confidential information to further your own stupid agendas, which you compound by repeating it again. Despicable. I will say no more. Bye. |
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Post by Marco on Jul 11, 2014 20:20:24 GMT
Frank, earlier you wrote:
"We then had a PRIVATE message exchange to say that I will not be sending my SLIC to you because I took up your suggestion of taking some overspill cable building and that the person I was doing it for would be displeased. That in fact was an actual lie because he said no such thing..."
Perhaps we're speaking a different language, but I take the bit in bold to mean that you're saying it was a lie that MCRU would be displeased at you sending the Slics to me. Quite simply, that's how it reads.
I then showed some text from an email you sent which proves, quite clearly, that MCRU does indeed have an issue with you sending the cables to me, so I'm afraid it's you who are telling porkies.
Anyway, if you want to continue this matter, we should take it either to PM or email, as having an argument here is inappropriate, as Dave has correctly pointed out.
Marco.
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Post by ChrisB on Jul 11, 2014 20:28:07 GMT
Yes I think that would be best Marco.
Thank you.
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Post by Marco on Jul 11, 2014 20:34:10 GMT
No worries, Chris Marco. |
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Post by ChrisB on Jul 11, 2014 23:29:49 GMT
Frank,
I don't know and don't particularly care about the stuff between you and Marco at the moment and I haven't worked out whether or not you're going to be sticking around on TAS.
BUT
There remains the question of your current relationship with Mr Brook. If you are indeed working for him, then you should declare your interest in your signature. Additionally, and for the moment, more importantly, if this is the case, then you should not be discussing SLIC cables or any other product that you are connected with unless directly requested to do so by another member.
That simple philosophy is one of the cornerstones upon which we founded The Audio Standard.
The message is simple: If you don't like the rules, then don't join the club.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2014 7:00:37 GMT
Oh good grief. I thought for a moment there that this forum was capable making peace break out. Still, there is always hope, one war seems to have de-escalated a little at least.  |
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Post by MartinT on Jul 12, 2014 8:39:10 GMT
I have just come to the forum to see that war was waged overnight, despite Chris's clear directive to take it to PM. Several posts have been deleted as a result. Frank: if you did perform work for MCRU, no matter how little, then please declare it in your sig and take no further part in discussions of his products unless to answer factual questions. If you're going to leave the forum, then do so, but don't be claiming afterwards that anyone drove you out. It's your decision. If anyone wants to continue discussions of shilling, then start a new thread in General Chat but keep it clean as we will not allow personal attacks. Further discussion in this thread will be about SLIC cables only. |
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Post by pre65 on Jul 12, 2014 9:24:44 GMT
I shall refrain from any comment of MCRU items as I know him personally, and he has been known to buy me a drink on occasions.
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Post by MartinT on Jul 12, 2014 9:30:59 GMT
Laughing aside, I have met DB too. But that doesn't preclude me from evaluating his products and finding in the negative on occasion, too.
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Post by MikeMusic on Jul 12, 2014 12:45:39 GMT
Oh good grief. I thought for a moment there that this forum was capable making peace break out. Still, there is always hope, one war seems to have de-escalated a little at least. There will be peace. Just a bit of a struggle sometimes |
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