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Post by gazjam on Jul 11, 2014 13:41:25 GMT
MODERATED: personal attacks removed Ad hominem? tut tut.  |
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Post by Dave on Jul 11, 2014 13:43:25 GMT
If you have substantive evidence to back up your claim Richard you need to provide it, otherwise you leave yourself open to rightly deserved criticism and perhaps even court action from the supplier and designer concerned.
EDIT: Quote removed as it has since been moderated
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Post by danielquinn on Jul 11, 2014 13:50:07 GMT
I read no actionable defamation , post or pre modification .
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Post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew on Jul 11, 2014 13:53:51 GMT
And he is a lawyer  |
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Post by MartinT on Jul 11, 2014 14:04:43 GMT
You'll forgive us for making our own minds up.
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Post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew on Jul 11, 2014 14:08:42 GMT
Please do, personally I have been mostly happy with the moderation. You will see at HFS if I am not, and you are getting a pretty good ride with us at the moment.
I am making points, hopefully I might get bored with it eventually, or even more hopefully you manage to remove or cure the source of the problem.
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Post by danielquinn on Jul 11, 2014 14:09:00 GMT
Here is some law, which adds substance to Dr Bunsen .
--
The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008
Misleading actions
5. (1) A commercial practice is a misleading action if it satisfies the conditions in either paragraph (2) or paragraph (3).
(2) A commercial practice satisfies the conditions of this paragraph—
(a)if it contains false information and is therefore untruthful in relation to any of the matters in paragraph (4) or if it or its overall presentation in any way deceives or is likely to deceive the average consumer in relation to any of the matters in that paragraph, even if the information is factually correct; and
(b)it causes or is likely to cause the average consumer to take a transactional decision he would not have taken otherwise.
The Business Protection from Misleading Marketing Regulations 2008
Prohibition of advertising which misleads traders
3. (1) Advertising which is misleading is prohibited.
(2) Advertising is misleading which—
(a)in any way, including its presentation, deceives or is likely to deceive the traders to whom it is addressed or whom it reaches; and by reason of its deceptive nature, is likely to affect their economic behaviour; or
(b)for those reasons, injures or is likely to injure a competitor.
(3) In determining whether advertising is misleading, account shall be taken of all its features, and in particular of any information it contains concerning—
(a)the characteristics of the product (as defined in paragraph (4));
(b)the price or manner in which the price is calculated;
(c)the conditions on which the product is supplied or provided; and
(d)the nature, attributes and rights of the advertiser (as defined in paragraph (5)).
(4) In paragraph (3)(a) the “characteristics of the product” include—
(a)availability of the product;
(b)nature of the product;
(c)execution of the product;# (d)composition of the product;
(e)method and date of manufacture of the product;
(f)method and date of provision of the product;
(g)fitness for purpose of the product;
(h)uses of the product;
(i)quantity of the product;
(j)specification of the product;
(k)geographical or commercial origin of the product;
(l)results to be expected from use of the product; or
(m)results and material features of tests or checks carried out on the product
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Post by welder on Jul 11, 2014 14:10:52 GMT
If someone spends a couple of grand on a cable and believes it makes a difference to their enjoyment of their system then I can’t see how anyone can consider that that person has been ripped off. As has been written, if it sounds better to them then it is better (what’s missing here is the to them bit) a stance I completely agree with. It all goes terribly wrong however when it is implied that the two grand cable is necessarily better than any other cable to anyone else. If on the other hand someone says a particular cable is a better cable, period, then I want to see some evidence.  |
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Post by MartinT on Jul 11, 2014 14:19:39 GMT
...and remember that the cable may not perform similarly in another system, so evidence is a hard commodity to supply.
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Post by pre65 on Jul 11, 2014 14:29:10 GMT
If someone spends a couple of grand on a cable and believes it makes a difference to their enjoyment of their system then I can’t see how anyone can consider that that person has been ripped off. As has been written, if it sounds better to them then it is better (what’s missing here is the to them bit) a stance I completely agree with. It all goes terribly wrong however when it is implied that the two grand cable is necessarily better than any other cable to anyone else. If on the other hand someone says a particular cable is a better cable, period, then I want to see some evidence. Evidence is perhaps the wrong word when it can often be a matter of personal preference. If I tried two items, and had a preference for one, I may not necessarily put the reasons for that preference into a cohesive statement. |
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hobnob
Rank: Soloist
Posts: 27 
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Post by hobnob on Jul 11, 2014 14:30:18 GMT
That's why more opinions are a good thing IMO. Question: Could another SLIC owner who isn't on the payroll perhaps lend Marco a cable to try in a bake off with a handful of others? They could do it anonymously if need be.
It doesn't have to be Marco, but as he's already expressed an interest in trying it, why not? A similar exercise with passive preamps went down ok recently so I can't see the harm.
I suspect that SLIC will be shown to be a decent sounding cable but then again so will the Klotz. Only one way to find out though.
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Post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew on Jul 11, 2014 14:30:47 GMT
Martin - Which is why flavour of the month should never exist. In my opinion the only way to stop it is to take the piss out of those who perpetrate the scam and their shills.
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Post by MartinT on Jul 11, 2014 14:34:33 GMT
Flavour of the month is the natural tendency of people to enthuse over a new product. We are as nothing compared with Apple fans!
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Post by danielquinn on Jul 11, 2014 14:36:58 GMT
That's why more opinions are a good thing IMO. Question: Could another SLIC owner who isn't on the payroll perhaps lend Marco a cable to try in a bake off with a handful of others? They could do it anonymously if need be. It doesn't have to be Marco, but as he's already expressed an interest in trying it, why not? A similar exercise with passive preamps went down ok recently so I can't see the harm. I suspect that SLIC will be shown to be a decent sounding cable but then again so will the Klotz. Only one way to find out though. I think Marco will have a problem , it is only available in 3 meters pairs .
However , if that isn't a problem , he can bang it on his credit card , play with it for 30 days and send it back for a full refund if it doesn't live up to reviews , advertorial and marketing .
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Post by pre65 on Jul 11, 2014 14:42:52 GMT
However , if that isn't a problem , he can bang it on his credit card , play with it for 30 days and send it back for a full refund if it doesn't live up to reviews , advertorial and marketing .
Seems like a fair enough offer to me. Try it in your own system for 30 days and return if it does not please you. |
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hobnob
Rank: Soloist
Posts: 27
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Post by hobnob on Jul 11, 2014 14:54:45 GMT
I was referring to interconnects. Not enough owners (any?) of the speaker cable to be able to borrow from.
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Post by danielquinn on Jul 11, 2014 14:56:51 GMT
Same can be done for interconnects and there will be no length issue .
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hobnob
Rank: Soloist
Posts: 27
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Post by hobnob on Jul 11, 2014 14:59:09 GMT
Of course it can but one of the benefits of forums is being able to hear other people's kit. I don't see it being a big issue for a genuine owner to loan it out or even bring to a bake off. If it's that good, why not let others hear it?
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Marco
Rank: Trio
Banned
Posts: 242
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Post by Marco on Jul 11, 2014 15:16:12 GMT
That's why more opinions are a good thing IMO. Question: Could another SLIC owner who isn't on the payroll perhaps lend Marco a cable to try in a bake off with a handful of others? They could do it anonymously if need be. It doesn't have to be Marco, but as he's already expressed an interest in trying it, why not? A similar exercise with passive preamps went down ok recently so I can't see the harm. I suspect that SLIC will be shown to be a decent sounding cable but then again so will the Klotz. Only one way to find out though. I'm more than up for that, and would, as I did at the passive preamp/LDR bake-off, tell it as I heard it. I'm simply not interested in whether my frank and honest findings in audio 'upset' someone or are contrary to a trader's best commercial interests. That's their problem, not mine. I have no 'loyalties' to anyone or anything other than in achieving, from my system, what I consider to be the best sound. The trouble is that there is too much politics and vested interests in hi-fi, which is something that I detest with a passion (and sensitive little wallflowers with delicate sensibilities who don't like their experiences challenged), so I doubt anyone would lend me some Slics, in order to carry out the comparison you'd like - and I'm certainly not interested enough in the outcome to fork out £500 in advance for the privilege of trying them!  Marco. |
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Post by Dave on Jul 11, 2014 15:18:50 GMT
I suspect much of the ire generated on this thread is aimed at a particular individual who is not shy about resorting to aggressive marketing tactics to promote his business. It does rather depend on which side of the fence one sits on as to whether you admire his business acumen or else see it as sharp practice. As long as this person, and others like him, adhere to the letter of the law then it all comes down to whether an individual is comfortable purchasing items from such traders.
To illustrate my point, when visiting certain electrical retail chains I get frustrated by eager sales assistants following me around the store repeatedly asking if I need any help. If I need help I will bloody ask for it, until then bugger off and let me browse in peace. I'm also not afraid to haggle the price of an item I might be interested in. Try it sometime if you haven't already, at the very least you are likely to be offered a selection of relevant accessories for the product you are interested in as a deal sweetener.
All businesses have margins to consider, whether they are located on the high street or the internet. Some margins are larger than others. In general these margins aren't set in stone and in certain instances (and with certain products) the mark ups can be quite obscene. The opposite is also true of course. Having prior knowledge to hand can be very useful when one is looking for a good deal.
In regards to the subject of this thread, personally I baulk at the cables advertised price, however I totally accept that others will, and do, come at this from a different perspective. What isn't cool is for members to scoff at others for the choices they make however. Affordability, or the concept thereof, is relative to each of us. It would cost me thousands of pounds to outfit my system with a full set of SLIC IC's and frankly my system doesn't warrant it as such a purchase would be at least four times more than I paid for the entire system...
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