Marco
Rank: Trio
Banned
Posts: 242 
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Post by Marco on Jul 11, 2014 10:26:34 GMT
The very fact that access to SLIC is being restricted as Marco indicates should tell anyone all they need to know. It reminds me of boxers who built a reputation by being fed pushovers whilst being kept well away from anyone who will shatter the myth and knock them out. Indeed... For all I know SLIC cables may bring forth choirs of angels and instigate the second coming because for 500 quid they'd damned well ought to, and where does anyone get off charging nearly a 'k' for speaker cables???. Even if I could afford a pair I wouldn't buy them because I could not bring myself to pay that amount for two lengths of copper and 4 plugs but that's my personal opinion, others will differ. Incidentally, I'm not solely picking on SLIC cables here but any cable which retails for 'silly' money. Hi hobnob (I wish the TAS software would allow for the automatic inclusion of real first names on posts, as I like to feel I'm speaking with a human being, lol), I agree with what you're saying, but should point out that the person in question had been a user of Slic cables for some time before becoming an employee of the trader in question. In fact, the latter only came to be as a result of my suggestion to said Slic cable user (as he was struggling to find a job he was happy with), which was made to him only very recently. I'm trying to bow out of this discussion, as I realise that the subject is contentious, but at the same time it's important that the facts of the matter are made clear for all interested parties. Marco. |
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hobnob
Rank: Soloist
Posts: 27
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Post by hobnob on Jul 11, 2014 10:26:54 GMT
In response to RD's link, shilling is also apparently illegal in the UK too. In this case the shill only avoided a prison sentence because he had no previous convictions for dishonesty: www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/threads/ebay-seller-avoids-prison-sentence-for-shilling.162789/edit: Thanks for clarifying, Marco. If employment clearly occurred after opinions posted then that would be a different scenario. I'd hope and expect any further comments to be done with a full disclaimer of the business relationship though. I also believe such associations are to be disclosed in member signatures here, just as you and others do. |
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Post by pinkie on Jul 11, 2014 10:52:49 GMT
I don't think you apply that definition when using the term. It has become much more of a playground pejorative for any enthusiasm for products, even where any association or interest is publicly declared. Nobody likes a con - but excessive vigilantism gets a bit wearing too. "A shill, also called a plant or a stooge, is a person who publicly helps a person or organization without disclosing that they have a close relationship with the person or organization." By that definition, I cannot shill Funk products (never mind Pink Triangle which went out of business over 10 years ago) since I am completely open about the fact that Arthur is a close friend, and I used to work for PT. That hasn't stopped you making the accusation in another post. (Apologies for the thread drift mods, I assume this will be removed to a separate thread on this subject as soon as one is created) |
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Marco
Rank: Trio
Banned
Posts: 242
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Post by Marco on Jul 11, 2014 10:56:10 GMT
I'd hope and expect any further comments to be done with a full disclaimer of the business relationship though. I also believe such associations are to be disclosed in member signatures here, just as you and others do. Yes indeed on both counts  Marco. |
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Post by danielquinn on Jul 11, 2014 10:56:36 GMT
Okay Pinky - what is being open and honest about your relationship with the product and then being vague , disingenuous or dishonest as at to its efficacy - Shilling ?
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Post by pinkie on Jul 11, 2014 11:02:17 GMT
Okay Pinky - what is being open and honest about your relationship with the product and then being vague , disingenuous or dishonest as at to its efficacy - Shilling ? Er - no. Not by the definition in Wkipedia the doc quoted. Usual "without prejudice" heading you chaps recommend, so I am not sure about which disengenuos or dishonest comments you have in mind, but I don't make them. However if I did, they would go in the pile with other bullshit, as a bit dotty, but NOT SHILLING! Again, this is all part of your noble quest. Most people publicly declaring their intention to wear their underpants outside their tights, and slip on the cape to fly 3 times round the world saving mankind, do it for world poverty, or the NSPCC child abuse charity, or animal welfare - not the ethical purity of HiFi forums. But each to their own I guess. |
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Post by danielquinn on Jul 11, 2014 11:03:19 GMT
MODERATED: personal slur removed
------------ response to moderation -
EH , it was a legitimate question . He could off responded with a no , that would have done for me .
however -
The post from pinky amounts to a personal attack and ad hominien whose raison detre is an attempt to silence me in a debate he started .
He took the remarks in my previous post personally without any justification or reason.
He has waxed lyrical upon the issue of shilling on H/S , his current position is not consistent with previous posts .
His post is almost verbatim the same as a post he levelled at me when he joined H/S .
Given this it was reasonable to ask if his consciousness had been altered in any way . |
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Post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew on Jul 11, 2014 11:37:44 GMT
I don't think you apply that definition when using the term. It has become much more of a playground pejorative for any enthusiasm for products, even where any association or interest is publicly declared. Nobody likes a con - but excessive vigilantism gets a bit wearing too. "A shill, also called a plant or a stooge, is a person who publicly helps a person or organization without disclosing that they have a close relationship with the person or organization." By that definition, I cannot shill Funk products (never mind Pink Triangle which went out of business over 10 years ago) since I am completely open about the fact that Arthur is a close friend, and I used to work for PT. That hasn't stopped you making the accusation in another post. (Apologies for the thread drift mods, I assume this will be removed to a separate thread on this subject as soon as one is created) Per usual you pick out the points that suit you. Making a declared interest doesn't stop you shilling product i.e. being a shill, it just takes away the legal consequences of the deception. A shill is someone who has another motive apart from as a customer, and you have that. The most sensible thing to do in this situation would be to avoid the subject, yet you go out of your way to praise anything to do with Arthur i.e. you shill him. In fact in your early days on forums it made up well over half of your posts. |
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Post by pinkie on Jul 11, 2014 11:42:48 GMT
I don't think you apply that definition when using the term. "A shill, also called a plant or a stooge, is a person who publicly helps a person or organization without disclosing that they have a close relationship with the person or organization." Per usual you pick out the points that suit you. Making a declared interest doesn't stop you shilling product i.e. being a shill, it just takes away the legal consequences of the deception. A shill is someone who has another motive apart from as a customer, and you have that. The most sensible thing to do in this situation would be to avoid the subject, yet you go out of your way to praise anything to do with Arthur i.e. you shill him. In fact in your early days on forums it made up well over half of your posts. The Wikipedia definition was your choice, not mine. RTFQ |
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Post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew on Jul 11, 2014 11:45:17 GMT
Pedantic to a T
You obviously have not read the full page, you read as far as what suits you, or to something you can be a pedant about.
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hobnob
Rank: Soloist
Posts: 27
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Post by hobnob on Jul 11, 2014 11:53:15 GMT
I'd Really like to hear from more people who have tried the cable and who have no connection or obligation to the designer or seller. Good or bad, if you've tried it and not shared your thoughts it might be helpful in giving a broader picture.
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Post by MartinT on Jul 11, 2014 12:13:12 GMT
Can we stop the ongoing discussion of shilling now please? We've heard enough from all parties and have let it run its course.
Also, several members seem to be confusing the SLIC interconnects which are launched products, with the SLIC speaker cables which, when I tried them, were a single experimental set. That is why I didn't have a price and why there are no additional sets for loan. If DB wants to comment on their availability, then he is free to do so (but he is not obliged as he is a standard member here).
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Post by Dave on Jul 11, 2014 12:19:33 GMT
I am sure the majority of members here are more than capable of making up their own minds as to whether they are being ripped off or not...
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2014 12:24:12 GMT
I am sure the majority of members here are more than capable of making up their own minds as to whether they are being ripped off or not... +1 |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2014 12:32:02 GMT
Richard, are you not considering producing a cable called T.I.S. (The Interconnect Statement) that will be retailed at "pretty near SLIC type prices" with a base cost for the cable of £12/m. Yes considering, but it has the same profit percentage as any other thing I produce. It will not and never will be shilled by plants on forums. Where as this is a product that is lent around with no price to judge it by, so that the constant wanking by the plants can create an opportunity to price it as high as possible. This is the second time the forums have been USED for this process. EDIT - just noticed your cost comment. You are in error! It is costing me nearly £2000 to buy the raw cable just for the first few to see if I want to put it into production. Ah I see, I assume the cost will come down if you go into production and the bulk buy price is £6k per 500m. |
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Post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew on Jul 11, 2014 12:46:38 GMT
There is also nothing wrong with a rip-off being pointed out. If it was not necessary then we wouldn't see the quantity of TQ cable now in the classifieds *****, incidentally with *exactly* the same people involved in it to promote the product.
The scam doesn't work for a manufacturer, as all that happens is that potential future sales are drawn forward, and then you go through a quiet patch when the sheep sell what they were conned into buying. Eventually the product comes back to its rightful and normal place in the market. For a distributor like MCRU it is different as campaigns for different products can be planned to replace latest campaigns as they run out of steam, which is what we have seen and has been patently obvious over the last couple of years.
***** MODERATION: unproven shilling accusation removed. |
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Post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew on Jul 11, 2014 12:48:21 GMT
Yes considering, but it has the same profit percentage as any other thing I produce. It will not and never will be shilled by plants on forums. Where as this is a product that is lent around with no price to judge it by, so that the constant wanking by the plants can create an opportunity to price it as high as possible. This is the second time the forums have been USED for this process. EDIT - just noticed your cost comment. You are in error! It is costing me nearly £2000 to buy the raw cable just for the first few to see if I want to put it into production. Ah I see, I assume the cost will come down if you go into production and the bulk buy price is £6k per 500m. How do you come to that conclusion. Anyway it is wrong. |
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Post by AlanS on Jul 11, 2014 13:03:37 GMT
Can we stop the ongoing discussion of shilling now please? We've heard enough from all parties and have let it run its course. Also, several members seem to be confusing the SLIC interconnects which are launched products, with the SLIC speaker cables which, when I tried them, were a single experimental set. That is why I didn't have a price and why there are no additional sets for loan. If DB wants to comment on their availability, then he is free to do so (but he is not obliged as he is a standard member here). The speaker cables are on his web site - have a free advert www.mains-cables-r-us.co.uk/hifi-cables/891-slic-innovations-eclipse-c-loudspeaker-cables.html#Saves him having to talk business I shall not be checking them out myself. They are too short and more than I paid for my speakers |
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Post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew on Jul 11, 2014 13:08:05 GMT
MODERATION: Nope, sorry, all of this is baseless. No more please.
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Post by pre65 on Jul 11, 2014 13:17:35 GMT
MODERATION: no longer required as removed
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