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Post by John on Aug 8, 2022 16:29:15 GMT
Vic was host to Damien and me. We got a chance to compare
Our test track was whipping boy by Ben Harper
We did have an issue with the SPDIF making noise after a track had stopped. No problem via USB.
As I was early, we put the di20he in first, and Vic noticed how much the noise floor had dropped. The harshness there before had gone, and the music had a sense of flow.
The U18 was halfway between the Zen Stream without the Audio-gd and with.
Damien added his clock, which elevated the U18 above the audio-gd by a small but noticeable margin. We then tried this with the audio-gd, and I heard a new level of realism that I had not heard before. Definitely a few steps up to anything we heard before. Another wow moment for me.
I liked the 12s in both units perhaps giving it a slight edge to the AES cable that was a bit edgy with the black magic cable going i2s cured this. Using the audio-gd
Great meet up
Now to update the firmware on the audio gd
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Post by julesd68 on Aug 8, 2022 16:48:28 GMT
Sounds like a very useful meet up John.
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Post by John on Aug 8, 2022 16:55:49 GMT
Yes interesting
View c system has a similar sound to what I am used to, so easier to evaluate and hear the differences for me.
Adding the external clock was interesting
Hopefully, Damien will add his take to this.
Vic has ordered an Audio-gd on the strength of the experience
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Post by julesd68 on Aug 8, 2022 17:01:24 GMT
The external clock would seem to be a worthwhile addition to the U18 too.
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Post by MartinT on Aug 8, 2022 17:29:23 GMT
The external clock would seem to be a worthwhile addition to the U18 too. It is. Hearing John's U18 with my clock over I2S is what sold me on it. Now with the Coherent mods, it's even better still. |
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Post by John on Aug 8, 2022 17:51:22 GMT
Yes next level
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Post by stellabagpuss on Aug 8, 2022 18:57:26 GMT
Great to meet up, and finally meet yourself John. A interesting session, hope you get further on the Audio GD, and get rid of that noise, l mentioned to Vic it reminded me of Feedback.
I thought the GD sounded superb in stock format, and as predicted left the modded U18 for dust, putting the clock on both units Turbo charged both units, l thought the GD still won, with a clock, by just felt it was warmer in tone slightly, l2s connection from the U18 brings the Magic.
We had a break when John left,then restared after 30, the U18 sounding slightly improved, l put this down to the clock being on longer, and it's something l have noticed, what you hear in the first half hour, is always better after 90 minutes. We swapped the Black Magic over to a cheap USB lead, and yes you could live with it, l once swapped back over, the Black Magic had more space and separation, and didn't have the gritty sound the cheap lead did, this was subtle, but you could hear it, so subtle, Vic actually noted, he could hear a difference, but wasn't sure. Naturally we didn't go back and try the cheap lead 😆
On the whole a positive day, and l am glad we met up, as unless you start purchasing everything, it's hard to test different components, so it was great we where able to answer those what if questions.
l think l will get more from the modded U18, as it's only had 12 hours of use since its been modded.
Damien
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Post by MartinT on Aug 8, 2022 19:22:27 GMT
We had a break when John left,then restared after 30, the U18 sounding slightly improved, l put this down to the clock being on longer, and it's something l have noticed, what you hear in the first half hour, is always better after 90 minutes. My solution is simple, Damien. I never turn the U18 or the AfterDark clock off. That way they stay warm and ready to play. The consumption is quite small. |
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Post by stellabagpuss on Aug 8, 2022 20:54:59 GMT
True Martin, it dosen't really bother myself to much, call me sad, I actually enjoy noticing the sound improving slowly.
It's also quite subtle,so it's not like the set up sound is bad from the off, guess I thought i should mention this to John, as he had gone at that point.
The Question is now Martin, whats your next adjustment ?
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Post by stellabagpuss on Aug 8, 2022 21:20:24 GMT
Vic was host to Damien and me. We got a chance to compare Our test track was whipping boy by Ben Harper We did have an issue with the SPDIF making noise after a track had stopped. No problem via USB. As I was early, we put the di20he in first, and Vic noticed how much the noise floor had dropped. The harshness there before had gone, and the music had a sense of flow. The U18 was halfway between the Zen Stream without the Audio-gd and with. Damien added his clock, which elevated the U18 above the audio-gd by a small but noticeable margin. We then tried this with the audio-gd, and I heard a new level of realism that I had not heard before. Definitely a few steps up to anything we heard before. Another wow moment for me. I liked the 12s in both units perhaps giving it a slight edge to the AES cable that was a bit edgy with the black magic cable going i2s cured this. Using the audio-gd Great meet up Now to update the firmware on the audio gd With all the excitement, forgot to mention, all this equipment was run into a Topping D90LE DAC and Topping A90 Decrete Pre amp directly to Vic's Active speakers Focal Shape 50 Speakers, he also run Behringer NX3000 DSP amps for subs. |
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Post by MartinT on Aug 8, 2022 21:26:51 GMT
The Question is now Martin, whats your next adjustment ? Apart from playing with the two different SFPs (tonight I favour the HPs over the BlueOptics), I had an idea that I shall try one evening this week. It involves switching around a Zero Zone PSU with a Coherent dual PSU to get more PSU goodness into use. I'll post about it after I've tried it. |
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Post by stellabagpuss on Aug 9, 2022 6:49:33 GMT
l'll look forward to it. All mine look back towards the PC now, and like everything cost £££
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Post by John on Aug 9, 2022 7:54:34 GMT
I think the main takeaway for me is just how much adding a ddc and external clock helps with the noise floor
When just hearing the zen stream I could hear the leading edge. Adding the DDC it lost that edge
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Post by MartinT on Aug 9, 2022 7:59:05 GMT
Agreed, John, you heard the effects of both a DDC (two different ones) and external clock in my system. It's hard to believe and I remember your surprise, especially at the clock.
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Post by John on Aug 9, 2022 10:28:09 GMT
Yes
I also guess Vic's system has a similar sound to my system, so I was even more surprised by what I heard
Sense of realism with the external clock I am not used to
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Post by John on Aug 9, 2022 10:29:41 GMT
If I had more space, I would add an external clock
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Post by julesd68 on Aug 9, 2022 12:47:13 GMT
I'll certainly consider that in future - I'd prefer to avoid 2 extra boxes if poss ie clock + lpsu.
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Post by John on Aug 16, 2022 19:08:18 GMT
I have gone through a few DDC's but never settled with any for more than a year. I am familiar with what they do and have been planning on waiting for the new Mutec to be released but came across a DI20HE and won it on eBay (The seller has been a true gent).
Its about twice the size of the U18 and 2 times the weight and nearly triple the cost new.
Features
High-End Digital USB (Amanero based) Converter
Support for Windows, Apple and Linux
PCM Sample rate / DSD rate shown on display
10MHz external Master Clock input
High speed 150Mbps isolator to separate USB input
FPGA processes data and clock, and support SQ upgrade-able
R core and 13 groups ultra PSU linear power supplies
Support up to PCM384K / DSD512 and DoP 256 over S/PDIF.
2nd generation ACSS S/PDIF output design (compatible with standard S/PDIF inputs)
DIGITAL INPUTS
INPUT S/PDIF
RCA 75 Ohm coaxial audio input (0.5VPP @ 75 Ohm) .
INPUT 10MHz
External 10MHz clock input (0.3VPP -3VPP @ 50 Ohm)
INPUT USB
USB audio input?USB2.0/USB3.0)
UPDATE PORT 10 pins port
To connect the Altera Blaster and proceed with an FPGA firmware update from Windows, using the Altera programming software. These updates are meant for upgrading the functionality and/or sound quality .
DIGITAL OUTPUTS
AES/EBU OUT
AES/EBU output connector?5VPP @ 110 Ohm)
S/PDIF OUT STD
Standard coaxial output connector, with built-in silver wire isolation transformer. (0.5VPP @ 75 Ohm
S/PDIF OUT ACSS
Output using current transmission technology over coaxial 0.5VPP @ 75 Ohm
This output applies the 2nd generation coaxial ACSS technology, which offers even further reduced signal degradation and better sound quality over a coaxial cable .
IIS OUT
IIS signal over HDMI output (3.3V LVDS @ 110 Ohm). It only can work with DACs using the exact same pin definition. It can NOT work with mainstream audio/video devices featuring HDMI inputs, and connecting the DI to such devices could damage it, in which case the warranty will not cover the repairs.
CLK OUT
Outputs 256fs main clock or LRCK/WCLK (3.3V LVDS @ 50 Ohm) . User selectable .
REGENERATIVE POWER SUPPLY
Integrated regenerative power supply is a proprietary electric generator built into the unit to eliminate noise from main power and deliver ultra-low noise and clean AC wave to feed the DDC. It will regenerate the main power and block noise from the power line , this will lead to most neutral and analog sound you can imagine.
A discrete balanced regenerative wave generator produces the new ultra-low noise wave form at 400Hz. The 400Hz frequency was chosen because they have better efficiency compared to traditional 50Hz and at this frequency, 400Hz, it will boost the sound to reproduce real and pleasant analog sound. The balanced gain amps with powerful output stages are driving the regenerative transformers to produce the extreme clean AC power. The extreme regenerated clean AC power is send to separate class A PSUs power supplies for both left and right channel
SPECIFICATIONS
Specifications might subject to change without prior notice for product improvement.
10M external clock 50? 0.3Vpp- 3Vpp
S/Pdif input 0.5 Vp-p @75 Ohms
USB input USB2.0 – USB3.0
HDMI-IIS output 3.3V LDVS @ 100 ohms
S/Pdif output 0.5 Vp-p @75 Ohms
AES/EBU output 5Vp-p @110 ohms
Clock output
256fs clock
Wclk
DSD clock
Support operate system (USB)
Windows, OSX, Linux, ISO
Support sampling USB : 44.1kHz – 384kHz /32Bit DSD64-512
Coaxial input: 44.1kHz – 192kHz / Dop
Coaxial output: 44.1kHz – 192kHz
Power Requirement Version 1: 100-120V AC 50/60 Hz
Version 2: 220-240V AC 50/60 Hz?
Power Consumption 20W
Package Weight Approximately 5KG
Dimensions W240 X L240 X H85 (MM, with feet, Fully aluminium )
Accessories No Accessories
Setup
The unit sits between my Zen Stream and Gustard A22 using the USB input.
I am outputting via AES or I2s to the DAC
As this was a second hand unit it had a older firmware that would not play 44/24. The Firmware update not only cured this it also improved the sound quality. However. it still will not cast YouTube videos via Bubble. Not that I mind as prefer to watch the performance so I will stick to Bluetooth for YouTube music.
Listening Impressions
I am using firmware V3 933
The first thing I noticed is the depth. It is like the music has swallowed you up as I am so immersed in the music. It is hard finding words but certainly more oomph, clarity, flow. The bass has more clout and sounds deeper too. I just find the music effortless and above all engaging. Long listening sessions happen naturally.
This just works for me.
Final thoughts
One of the reasons why I liked BT is the lack of harshness. It was performing at a similar level to the Limetree but I could do long listening sessions as no sense of glare. With the Zen Stream and DDC I now have that added resolution I knew was missing but without the drawback of feeling fatigued.
So what is next. Perhaps a clock with a power supply or a different power amplifier or a better streamer.
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Post by brettj on Aug 18, 2022 11:45:17 GMT
I'm seriously considering one of these.
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Post by John on Aug 18, 2022 12:24:33 GMT
When you consider it is pretty much on par with Damian U18 and a second-hand external after-dark clock, that was about £900.
I think as long as you get a new one or one with modern firmware, you will love it
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