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Post by John on Apr 30, 2021 16:09:25 GMT
I often worry about where to post some of my music selections that walk a fine line between classical jazz and other influences in music Whilst my taste do not really include the more commercial 2 cellos it often sits somewhere in between
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Post by julesd68 on Apr 30, 2021 17:06:00 GMT
It means different things to different people.
For example, Classic FM regularly features film scores that are played on orchestral instruments but I personally wouldn't call it 'classical music'.
In historic terms it refers to the period of 1750 to 1830 and this is where the majority of classical music produced after that date takes most of its influences and structures from.
But at the end of the day I don't like to get too bogged in it and I don't think any of us here are that precious to be offended by what goes where ...
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Post by Slinger on Apr 30, 2021 17:13:25 GMT
There is no answer to that question that makes sense to everyone, and it would take me about a year to not give you the answer that there isn't.
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Post by MartinT on Apr 30, 2021 19:22:32 GMT
Agreed! I do include film scores when played by orchestra, for instance.
2Cellos? Not really.
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Post by John on Apr 30, 2021 19:52:12 GMT
So let's say something like Barry Gray Thunderbird which is a great fun orchestra based and definitely has classical elements is not classical because it was written for a TV series I must admit I am getting more confused
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Post by julesd68 on Apr 30, 2021 20:10:55 GMT
The issue isn't that it was written for a TV series - it's merely a very nice piece of light entertainment written very much in the style of the day. What connection does it have with any of the great composers in terms of style or structure? Nothing! They merely share the use of some orchestral instruments.
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Post by jandl100 on Apr 30, 2021 20:14:26 GMT
A lot of British and European classical composers in the middle 20thC turned to writing film music if they wouldn't or couldn't conform with the wave of atonality which the BBC, for example, (a very major source of funding) insisted upon over several decades.
There was also good money to be had from the film industry for film scores, which is quite an incentive for any composer!
So I would definitely support a lot of film music being classed as classical.
A lot of folks say that Korngold's classical music sounds like film music - actually it's the other way around. Film music sounds like Korngold - because that classical composer pretty much invented what we now consider to be typical film music.
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Post by MartinT on Apr 30, 2021 20:54:13 GMT
I would add to that Respighi. Quite a few of his sweeping scores sound like film music, too.
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Post by jandl100 on Apr 30, 2021 21:06:07 GMT
And as John has previously noted in the classical blog thread, Vaughan Williams 6th symphony would make an excellent Star Wars soundtrack.
Many other examples of commonality between classical and film music.
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Post by John on Apr 30, 2021 21:10:17 GMT
Yes this is why I am really struggling that it has to be written by a famous composer or in a certain time frame for it to be classical. Music can cross over from different formats this is how it evolves over time. I just think it is very hard to firmly define.
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Post by Clive on Apr 30, 2021 21:16:48 GMT
Yes this is why I am really struggling that it has to be written by a famous composer or in a certain time frame for it to be classical. Music can cross over from different formats this is how it evolves over time. I just think it is very hard to firmly define. I doubt it’s helpful to be rigid with the definition but if we were to be...the word “classical” suggests to me it’s not supposed to evolve. It surely doesn’t matter and that thought only struck me when I read your post. |
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Post by Slinger on Apr 30, 2021 22:01:20 GMT
How about turning the "film music" thing on its head and mentioning the Warsaw Concerto, by Richard Addinsell. It was written in the style of Rachmaninov for the film Dangerous Moonlight, which required a piano concerto as a central plot point. They wanted to use Sergei Rachmaninoff's Second Piano Concerto, but it was either forbidden by the copyright owners or was far too expensive, I don't know which. I think it's rather good; it's definitely in the classical style, but is it classical music?
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Post by jandl100 on Apr 30, 2021 22:18:14 GMT
Looking at the film music thing from different perspectives, classical recording review publications like Gramophone, ClassicFM magazine, Fanfare all include film music reviews - so they obviously regard them as part of the classical genre.
Film music also gets played regularly on classical radio stations like BBC Radio 3 and ClassicFM.
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Post by jandl100 on Apr 30, 2021 22:23:18 GMT
... and some classical recording labels like Chandos seem to specialise in issuing film soundtrack albums.
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Post by ChrisB on Apr 30, 2021 22:44:35 GMT
By my way of thinking (and I'm often very, very wrong), classical music was written throughout a specific time-frame and was usually commissioned by members of the idle rich classes.
Everything else is folk music. The reason for this is that it was written by the 'folk' and to be enjoyed by 'folks'.
But it's all genres, and genres mean nowt.
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Post by Slinger on Apr 30, 2021 23:20:29 GMT
How about when a rock guitarist shreds a bit of classical violin music? I would imagine that nobody would still call it classical music, but the notes are the same, just played by a different instrument, and sometimes at a different tempo. So, what stops it being classical music. Is it the style it's being played in, or the instrument it's being played on, or both, or neither?
Turn that on its head and you've got the London Symphony Orchestra and the Royal Choral Society's "Classic Rock," series od albums where they played rock songs in a classical style. They're not rock music any more, so are they classical or som eweird hybrid. If so why aren't they classical. The instrumentation is the same as for classical music, the style is what we consider classical in a lot of cases.
Classical music is generally accepted to consist of these "periods"
Medieval (c. 1150 - c. 1400)
Renaissance (c. 1400 - c. 1600)
Baroque (c. 1600 - c. 1750)
Classical (c. 1750 - c. 1830)
Early Romantic (c. 1830 - c. 1860)
Late Romantic (c. 1860 - c. 1920)
Post 'Great War' Years (c. 1920 - Present)
So is classical music only "real" classical music if it was written between 1750 and 1830?
I'm buggered f I know.
Classical music is what you want it to be; and that's as close to an answer as I can come.
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Post by julesd68 on Apr 30, 2021 23:30:11 GMT
Yes this is why I am really struggling that it has to be written by a famous composer or in a certain time frame for it to be classical. I don't think anyone here is saying that - as I said previously the classical music of the 18th and 19th centuries informed the development of all classical music that followed it. |
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Post by julesd68 on Apr 30, 2021 23:35:53 GMT
So is classical music only "real" classical music if it was written between 1750 and 1830? Classical music is what you want it to be; No and no it is not.  As you stated earlier the word 'classical' in this context purely refers to the period. |
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Post by julesd68 on Apr 30, 2021 23:42:47 GMT
Looking at the film music thing from different perspectives, classical recording review publications like Gramophone, ClassicFM magazine, Fanfare all include film music reviews - so they obviously regard them as part of the classical genre. Film music also gets played regularly on classical radio stations like BBC Radio 3 and ClassicFM. It's only because a lot of film music is popular with those who like classical music. Just like 2cellos, just because classical instruments and orchestration are employed, the music doesn't magically become 'classical'. I am more than happy to be in the minority in this belief if that is the case. |
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Post by John on May 1, 2021 5:21:28 GMT
Yes this is why I am really struggling that it has to be written by a famous composer or in a certain time frame for it to be classical. Music can cross over from different formats this is how it evolves over time. I just think it is very hard to firmly define. I doubt it’s helpful to be rigid with the definition but if we were to be...the word “classical” suggests to me it’s not supposed to evolve. It surely doesn’t matter and that thought only struck me when I read your post. We have plenty of Contemporary Classical music so I think while we have the classics it dose develop |
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