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Post by Paul Barker on Aug 10, 2014 10:44:01 GMT
Here is a Briggs dimensions field Coil full range baffle I hooked up. Actually made a pair of them.  they sound absolutely fantastic. look terrible and ruin the looks of a living room. you can't easily walk around them. rooms for speakers and speakers for rooms. Life is full of compromise. |
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Post by John on Aug 10, 2014 11:38:29 GMT
Very old school baffles How do they sound Paul
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Post by Paul Barker on Aug 10, 2014 11:45:45 GMT
vertually the same as Quad 57's.
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Post by John on Aug 10, 2014 11:55:11 GMT
That is pretty good
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Post by Paul Barker on Aug 10, 2014 12:17:25 GMT
yes I was very shocked to discover most of the Quad 57 sound comes from the dimensions.
therefore the 63 and any other Quad ESL comes anwhere near the 57 at the imaging of human voice.
It is the same in these OB dimensioned speakers.
I was making oblong tall baffles for years and years. A friend said to me one day that I should go back and try the source the Briggs baffle.
He was quite right.
I don't care to discuss why it works. for me it is good enough that it works.
the problem is the dimensions suit the home of a single man with reasonable sized listening space, or a very selfish family man, and little else.
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Post by Paul Barker on Aug 10, 2014 12:20:40 GMT
Of course the field coils deserve another place for discussion, and in some places surprising resistance against the field coil method is expressed. suffice it to say for midrange these vintage field coils are my best experience. With the possible exception of Bruce Edgar's tightan's and Quad 57's themselves. But for the Quad ESL midrange quality the Field coil motor is the most likely way to achieve it from a paper cone.
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Post by Paul Barker on Aug 10, 2014 12:25:24 GMT
In those days when I made these some 8 years ago, I was using an SE 801A amplifier of my own design which in itself was all direct coupled and capacitorless. The power supply was also capacitorless and entirely valve shunt regulated. It was an enormous amount of excess which needed four times the floor space of a single loudspeaker.
at times in my life I have been that selfish family man. But I was in danger of being that single man who can do as he pleases. that would not have been good.
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Post by istari_knight on Aug 12, 2014 20:37:33 GMT
There is something magical about the esl57 size baffle. Tried it myself with some relatively crude Goodmans Axiom 301's... The resultant sound was quite astounding. Took the dimensions from this site: jelabsarch.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/open-baffle.html |
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Post by pre65 on Aug 12, 2014 21:14:34 GMT
That is an interesting article you link to, and I've saved it for future reference.
I did not know (or had forgotten) that Paul had tried, and liked that configuration.
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Post by DarrenHW on Jul 8, 2015 8:49:39 GMT
Great thread! “Boxless” speakers have appealed to me since hearing a pair of ESL63’s but I thought bass (or lack thereof) would be a compromise I wouldn’t be prepared to make until hearing a pair of Magneplanar 1.7’s. The Maggie’s didn’t do it for me (lots of LF but no slam, admittedly they weren’t appropriately positioned or partnered just an impromptu hook up at a local dealer)but did make me realise that my assumption that boxless speakers couldn’t do bass was wrong. I know many of you have decades of experience but I only got into this “hobby” less than two years ago so please excuse my ignorance. I’m just about at the end of servicing / modding my Ditton 44’s and I’m thinking of swapping out the mids for some Ditton 66 drivers, bi/tri-amping and then building new cabinets. There are 2 things stopping me from proceeding with this, first is the cost, this would be an additional ~£300 cost (per pair), secondly and most importantly, I came into HiFi from Home Cinema and have been using 44’s all the way round but due to a recent move around (which greatly improved / reduced room interaction) this is no longer possible due to the location of a door. This has caused me to rethink my choice of speakers and hence my interest in OB’s. The Hawthorne’s look like an interesting and budget friendly place to start and the thought of running a 15” FR is very appealing. I have lots of questions but as this post is long enough already I’ll start with the most generic: Amplification: I have a pair of Quad 405’s setup as mono blocks (awaiting DCD Mod3, 2 boards will be installed in each amp for bi-amping eventually) theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?34047-Quad-405-servicing-modding-advice&p=647584#post647584 and a Nakamichi AVP-1 theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?38783-A-visit-to-Halfway-Tree&highlight=halfway Sorry for the AoS links, it was the last thread that really made me think about OB’s, but I thought TAS would be a better place to ask these questions. I prefer the sound of the 405’s to the AVP-1 (I find the AVP-1 a bit fatiguing for music, the 405’s have nicer mid bass but the AVP’1’s great for Home Cinema). Would either of these be adequate for something like a Hawthorne Duet buld? (My room is 5m x 5m x 2.4m) Crossover: Passive or active is basically the question here. Passive would be a far more convenient solution for me (fewer boxes, cables etc) and like many I have concerns over using a dsp in my analogue chain. Looking at some of the members (here and elsewhere) who use active xo’s and the equipment / experience they have suggests my concerns are unfounded and I can certainly see the advantages of going active. It would seem that the costs are similar i.e. Mini DSP v quality (but not high end) caps and coils in a two way setup using 1 x Mini DSP per pair. |
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Post by John on Jul 8, 2015 12:21:56 GMT
Hi Darren You really do not have to worry about slam. My system slams! I presume you be going for the Silver Iris option if you go for the Hawthornes. Your 405 will power them well. However for the bass (Auggies) I go for what I am using the Berhinger Inuke DSP it gives stunning bass Your room bigger than mine so no issue with room size To explain the Hawthorne set up for the main driver (Silver Iris) comes with a crossover. In the future you could always go active, but plenty of other mods you can do to improve the sound. The Auggies need to be active, loads of way to do this but how I am doing works well. Also have a look on this site www.trans-fi.com/my-system I heard this system quite a few times and it is really good. Lets talk about costs a bit to get where my speakers are now up to will cost more as I use the Radian driver. The Silver Iris is nice but not the last word in detail. The Alpair will sound just as good perhaps but cost you less at this level. To be honest not to much difference the Alpairs are capable of a bit more refinement (but your 405 you might have to limit it bass output to work well with the Alpairs) Whilst the Hawthorne just rocks a tiny bit more. We really not talking a lot, differences are subtle. If you go the Mini DSP route make sure you have enough outputs as you could always add a amp of your choice for the bass duties and actively control this as well as the mid treble crossover. I think Ali T uses the Mini DSP. If using the Alpairs this would be a good way to stop the main driver being overloaded in the bass. The Alpairs are full range speakers so no crossover but good not to overload the bass Vic and Clive does this by adding a resistor to their amp. Creates a very clean sound Sovereign open baffle system slams too. Lots of nice detail and totally passive but you have to build the crossover. So at this stage loads of options What I did was hear a few Open Baffles before I decided on which route to take Customer service from Hawthorne is brilliant but remember to add postage vat and custom duty into the costing |
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Post by Sovereign on Jul 8, 2015 13:33:11 GMT
Not seen this thread, not got the time to read through it now, should even be working as we speak, but thanks for resurrecting it.
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Post by Eduardo Wobblechops on Jul 8, 2015 13:48:58 GMT
Yes, I use a miniDSP module, great bit of kit and dead easy to use. My OB's are twin Eminence Alpha 15" and one Visaton B200 per side. The B200 runs down to 200hz, where the Eminences take over on down. I've recently added a pair of Tannoy ST100 supertweeters to good effect. Next plan is to remake the baffles in 20mm acrylic, using a pair of the Alpairs in place of the B200's. I have a pair sitting in the cupboard ready to go. Here is how they looked before the Tannoys were added-  |
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Post by Sovereign on Jul 8, 2015 14:08:35 GMT
20mm acrylic! Blimey thats a good idea, that would cost you a fair sack though.
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Post by Eduardo Wobblechops on Jul 8, 2015 14:42:23 GMT
Found two sheets on Ebay, almost exactly the same size as my baffles for 60 quid..
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Post by John on Jul 8, 2015 14:57:44 GMT
Great deal Ali
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Post by DarrenHW on Jul 8, 2015 15:25:51 GMT
Hi Darren You really do not have to worry about slam. My system slams! Hi John, So I've read, not just here but in the "What gives a speaker slam?" thread. I presume you be going for the Silver Iris option if you go for the Hawthornes. Yes, that's what I was thinking until you mentioned the 12P's. Your 405 will power them well. However for the bass (Auggies) I go for what I am using the Berhinger Inuke DSP it gives stunning bass Your room bigger than mine so no issue with room size Good to know the 405's will be okay and that room size isn't an issue. The Behringer is an interesting option (thanks for suggesting it) and seems the ideal option to power and crossover the woofers (I'll read up on it). To explain the Hawthorne set up for the main driver (Silver Iris) comes with a crossover. In the future you could always go active, but plenty of other mods you can do to improve the sound. The Auggies need to be active, loads of way to do this but how I am doing works well. Also have a look on this site www.trans-fi.com/my-system I heard this system quite a few times and it is really good. Lets talk about costs a bit to get where my speakers are now up to will cost more as I use the Radian driver. The Silver Iris is nice but not the last word in detail. The Alpair will sound just as good perhaps but cost you less at this level. To be honest not to much difference the Alpairs are capable of a bit more refinement (but your 405 you might have to limit it bass output to work well with the Alpairs) Whilst the Hawthorne just rocks a tiny bit more. We really not talking a lot, differences are subtle. The Alpair's are interesting, would you really recommend using an 8" driver over a 15"? An 8" driver would be a better option for me from the point of view of accommodating surround speakers which could all be 12P's (instead of Silver Iris 15" up front with 10" as surrounds). If you go the Mini DSP route make sure you have enough outputs as you could always add a amp of your choice for the bass duties and actively control this as well as the mid treble crossover. I think Ali T uses the Mini DSP. If using the Alpairs this would be a good way to stop the main driver being overloaded in the bass. The Alpairs are full range speakers so no crossover but good not to overload the bass Vic and Clive does this by adding a resistor to their amp. Creates a very clean sound Sovereign open baffle system slams too. Lots of nice detail and totally passive but you have to build the crossover. So at this stage loads of options What I did was hear a few Open Baffles before I decided on which route to take Customer service from Hawthorne is brilliant but remember to add postage vat and custom duty into the costing Lots of options indeed, I agree listening would be the best option but I don't think there are many OB users close to me. I have imported before and I'm painfully aware of HMRC. Thanks for all the info. Yes, I use a miniDSP module, great bit of kit and dead easy to use. My OB's are twin Eminence Alpha 15" and one Visaton B200 per side. The B200 runs down to 200hz, where the Eminences take over on down. I've recently added a pair of Tannoy ST100 supertweeters to good effect. Next plan is to remake the baffles in 20mm acrylic, using a pair of the Alpairs in place of the B200's. I have a pair sitting in the cupboard ready to go.... Hi Ali, I was going to ask about using the Alpha's over the Augies (mainly due to avoiding importing), do you still intend on using the ST100's once you've installed the 12P's? Have you installed both Alpha's at the bottom for reinforcement? I've seen a few designs such as the Trio 15TB which place the woofers top and bottom? |
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Post by Eduardo Wobblechops on Jul 8, 2015 15:36:28 GMT
Darren, yes, you can see in the picture the Eminence at the bottom. As for the ST 100's, dunno, will try them and see. If I don't need them I'll sell them on.
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Post by John on Jul 8, 2015 15:52:08 GMT
The Alpairs are very good
With the Berhinger you would pick it up the inputs from your pre
If going for the Alpairs let me know as the Auggies upper bass is not great but work well with SI 15 so you need to go for another bass driver the Goldwood 18 is a far better match
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Post by DarrenHW on Jul 8, 2015 16:29:07 GMT
Not really close to making a decision on drivers yet but the Alpair's are a tempting proposition, do you know of a UK supplier? The Goldwood's seem interesting too although I need to do some more reading on baffle design, part of the appeal of the Hawthorne's is that the R&D's already been done, not that I'm averse to alternative suggestions or using my router.
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