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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2019 10:18:30 GMT
Ah hah, I did forget about their class. And I did like them lots lol.
The Sanders was a class a/b amp, definitely not class D.
It was unusual in how cool it ran though, which you could say is very class d esque.
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Post by MartinT on Oct 27, 2019 11:25:09 GMT
Are Class D the same as what was know as T or whatever? Yes, a company called Tripath made many of the early class D chips for amps and called it class T. It's the same thing, a PWM (Pulse Width Modulation) system. |
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Post by MartinT on Oct 27, 2019 11:30:33 GMT
The Sanders was a class a/b amp, definitely not class D. It was unusual in how cool it ran though, which you could say is very class d esque. The Sanders Magtech (which I did try in my system) uses an unusual power supply regulation method by switching on the bridge rectifier diodes (they likely use thyristors, rather like a light dimmer using a triac). This would allow for cool running. I didn't find it a particularly transparent amp. |
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Post by chouman on Oct 27, 2019 14:06:13 GMT
I think that all amplifier technology are good and I can't say that I really prefer one against another.
Given a specific system I may prefer a classD amp, or classA, or tubes...
In my experience I never had the tendency for classD, but I guess that I am attached to my specific experience, where classD does not abound. I heard very good amps from all kinds, nevertheless.
All these technologies can be tuned and refined over and over, improved, corrected...
I would say that classD can not match the best classA or Tubes, or ClassA/B, IF the evolution had to stop in a certain point. Now classD reached maturity and there's a long way ahead.
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Post by John on Oct 27, 2019 14:42:26 GMT
I agree good implementation seems to be the key
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Post by jandl100 on Oct 27, 2019 15:50:37 GMT
In my opinion and experience class D done well is now at least the equal of other amplifier technologies, of the amps I have heard the best is now class D.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2019 17:24:04 GMT
Are Class D the same as what was know as T or whatever? Yes, a company called Tripath made many of the early class D chips for amps and called it class T. It's the same thing, a PWM (Pulse Width Modulation) system. Thought so. I have an Amptastic amp that I bought for my office system which is quite excellent. It replaced and easily improved upon a Cyrus I, MkII integrated I was using before. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2019 17:58:23 GMT
Good thoughts Jerry
Having owned and had the pleasure if working on some of the best amplification available I would agree implementation is the key
Class d do correctly is more than match for anybof the other design criteria
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Post by liffy99 on Dec 3, 2019 22:52:47 GMT
My history, like many of us I suspect, is rooted in class a/b. Whether it was down to implementation or not the big change for me was when I started on the lower rungs of what I saw then as the big league. In my case this meant Plinius pre / power in Class A and thence Parasound JC1s (mostly class A at normal volume levels). Then came my Lyngdorf 2200 which I found just as transparent and capable as the previous two - and it had lots of useful stuff too, like room correction.
My current tdaI 3400 has moved things on even further - love it.
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Post by chouman on Dec 3, 2019 23:27:10 GMT
After all, I have to say that I never heard any classD that sounds so dramatic as a good classA. I have a friend who has a very expensive system with classD amps, the price of a litle apartement. It is impressive, but there is no life. Boring. Souless. However, I don't know all classD amps, to be honest. But I don't know all classA neither!  |
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Post by mattspl on Dec 8, 2019 20:01:45 GMT
I had a Chapter Audio pre and power amp once. The combo was great in that it had no sound of its own, but was sterile and lacking emotion.
My active speakers use Hypex class D amps but with linear power supplies. I love the way they make music, so natural and effortless, capturing the emotion of the music.
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Post by jandl100 on Dec 8, 2019 22:43:53 GMT
After all, I have to say that I never heard any classD that sounds so dramatic as a good classA. I have a friend who has a very expensive system with classD amps, the price of a litle apartement. It is impressive, but there is no life. Boring. Souless. However, I don't know all classD amps, to be honest. But I don't know all classA neither! I've heard a few class D amps which are boring, but I have also heard several transistor class A amps which are just as bad - some Electrocompaniet and Monarchy Audio amps comes to mind. Just bland and drab. I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with class A or D, it's all about the individual implementation. |
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Post by MartinT on Dec 9, 2019 6:41:46 GMT
Some of the Sugden class A amps could send you to slee...zzz
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Post by jandl100 on Dec 9, 2019 6:54:44 GMT
I think that interestingly lively solid state class A amps are the exception rather than the rule.
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Post by John on Dec 9, 2019 8:47:44 GMT
Only heard a few Sudgen amplifiers and found them to be real Pipe and Slippers
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Post by Clive on Dec 9, 2019 9:56:16 GMT
If I were to generalise I would say that Class D tends towards a neutral presentation. There will always be exceptions, specially if there are some euphonic capacitors in the amp.
Class A and A/B can be made to sound sterile but quite often they are more "fruity" sounding, sometimes the fruit is mushy, sometimes crisp.
If we put a very neutral sounding Class D amp into a system which has been balanced with a more characterful amp then the results are likely to be a bit sterile. The way I set up my systems is to aim at a little character but where possible this character is derived from a single component ie, preamp, power amp or speakers.
It's all about synergy and achieving the sound you want. Class D can work really well but just bear in mind that synergy. That's my take on it...
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Post by MartinT on Dec 10, 2019 8:26:45 GMT
I thought this might help...
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Post by liffy99 on Dec 10, 2019 8:40:39 GMT
Love Paul’s style with these. On this occasion though I think he fluffed the explanation of class ab though.
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Post by MartinT on Dec 10, 2019 8:41:59 GMT
He also slightly conflates PDM (Pulse Density Modulation) with PWM (Pulse Width Modulation), but it still holds good.
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Post by puffin on Feb 13, 2020 19:14:33 GMT
If you feel like brewing your own amps and tailoring the sound Class D is a very cheap way to "tune" your system. I have messed with Class D boards for over 10 years and had good and bad results. Just this week I have been re-boxing, and with a new PS a TPA3116 based amp said to be 50w into 4Ohms at 24vdc. When I first got the board I replaced the input caps for something more exotic and built a linear PS with some current smoothing trickery. It sounded ok, but I had so many other amps that I put it aside and it never really got used. I have now finished the re-case etc and plumbed it into the main system today. It now has an SMPS. It sounds more ballsy than I remember...in fact the bass is just too much...or have I been listening to amps with lean bass? I don't think so. The value of the input caps affect the low frequency response and what I put in a few years ago needs to be changed. Once I have done this it will be interesting to see if the bass is tamed.
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