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Post by MikeMusic on Apr 2, 2019 15:58:39 GMT
Want to replace spikes or bare metal at the foot with RDC cones which have either M6 or M8 internal threads.
Best seems to screw into the RDCs but not necessarily *screwed* into the speaker stand or racks as the point is to have the base of the RDC in maximum contact with the metal. Need to stop the stands or racks being pushed off the cones of course. Stands and racks have holes so bolts in seems good. As the metal stands and rack threads could be old Imperial sizes M6 or M8 may not fit and may find the metal hole is too small for the relevant bolt. Really don't want to go drilling the metal though
Hoping to buy cheap off Ebay or similar and just bung in.
Can life be that simple ?
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Post by petea on Apr 2, 2019 16:11:03 GMT
I've been thinking about something similar myself after some suggestions by Martin. However, my floor slopes somewhat and I use spikes to level the racks. To do the same with the cones would be trickier. My 'solution' has been to isolate everything that is on the racks either using Townshend Platforms and Pods for source equipment and amplifiers and, more recently, Black Ravioli for PSUs (more is on order to complete this). The shelves have also been decoupled with industrial vibration damping material.
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Post by MikeMusic on Apr 2, 2019 16:18:07 GMT
I've been thinking about something similar myself after some suggestions by Martin. However, my floor slopes somewhat and I use spikes to level the racks. To do the same with the cones would be trickier. My 'solution' has been to isolate everything that is on the racks either using Townshend Platforms and Pods for source equipment and amplifiers and, more recently, Black Ravioli for PSUs (more is on order to complete this). The shelves have also been decoupled with industrial vibration damping material. Damn. Good point. Murphy's Law dictates I will find my floor is not level and I *will* need to screw into the stand or rack for adjustment. This is for other systems not the main which has Creaktiv racks, Black Ravioli and Townshend speaker stands What damping material do you use ?
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Post by petea on Apr 2, 2019 16:35:46 GMT
Good question. We bought it ages ago from a company called Vibration Control, but I think they were either bought or have gone under. We used it for some optical isolation benches to prevent medium and low frequency vibration affecting the very long exposure times used when imaging using high magnifications on a microscope. There was some left over in a drawer so I used that to try and damp any airborne resonance. A seismograph app. showed it to be cutting out direct transmission and it certainly stopped any 'ringing' on the sides of the new cabinet. As to whether it cuts out everything I cannot say. I think you'd need a proper micro-seismometer to find that out.
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Post by MikeMusic on Apr 2, 2019 16:41:14 GMT
Thanks Pete There are others I can investigate if VC are not around Maybe my soon to arrive phone with a vibration app can measure well enough
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Post by ChrisB on Apr 2, 2019 16:48:48 GMT
Mike, if you go for the cones that have threaded holes, you can put a threaded bar in that's as long as it needs to be to ensure you have enough thread on each corner to ensure that levelling can be done. Old racks using Imperial threads? That's not really likely unless they are of US origin. Which brand/s of racks are we talking about? If you're in doubt, then surely it's easy enough to find out?
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Post by petea on Apr 2, 2019 16:53:13 GMT
I use an app on an iPad pro, working on the larger the area the better! I think they are good for making relative assessments, but I wouldn't want to rely on them for absolute measurements. Actually, thinking about It, I have a friend in Athens who is a geophysicist and has some very sensitive seismometers, I'll be there next so I'll take my iPad with me and see if we get a chance to make some comparative measurements. If we don't have time / opportunity there will be another chance in September.
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Post by petea on Apr 2, 2019 17:14:27 GMT
Having had a look at the Clearlight Audio website, and thinking similarly, I'm not sure that using the threaded stud to adjust for height would be wise. The cones are a polymeric material and they seem to rely on the contact between the base of the cone and the bottom of the leg to provide structural integrity within the cone (and damp transmission). If you only reply on the contact between the thread of the stud and the polymeric body it could fail mechanically, although that would depend on the load they were under I suppose (it might also compromise the damping). A better way would be to work out the height differences at leach leg and then use packing pieces the same diameter as the base of the cones to take up the gap. They are fairly cheap though so might order some and have a play for use under the record deck rack - the frame looks to be too narrow to accommodate them on the new rack. I'm pretty sure the threads on the 3-leg rack are M6, but I have a spare layer at work so I can check fairly easily.
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Post by ChrisB on Apr 2, 2019 17:26:47 GMT
Yes Pete, I was going to suggest using a stack of repair washers or a drilled block of hard wood packed between the cone top and the bottom of the rack leg.
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Post by petea on Apr 2, 2019 17:41:50 GMT
Looking at the design of the legs on the rack I can see that the outer tube is closed by a steel disc welded in with the thread going through a central boss also welded to the disc. The welds are good, but there is not a single flat surface. So, I'd need to machine the spacer to interface between those parts and the cone, which is doable but a hassle. I have some aluminium bar a bit larger in diameter than the legs so I might give it a go. At least I can check the fit on the spare layer and then just machine the height of the spacers as required, or maybe even make them 2 component so give some flexibility.
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Post by petea on Apr 2, 2019 17:43:27 GMT
Actually wood might look nice and provide yet another material interface. You can't beat a project!
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Post by MikeMusic on Apr 2, 2019 18:15:51 GMT
Mike, if you go for the cones that have threaded holes, you can put a threaded bar in that's as long as it needs to be to ensure you have enough thread on each corner to ensure that levelling can be done. Old racks using Imperial threads? That's not really likely unless they are of US origin. Which brand/s of racks are we talking about? If you're in doubt, then surely it's easy enough to find out? Mana and Sound Org Rack Linn Sara stands, TDL speakers Being cautious as British and maybe still hanging onto Imperial quite a few years ago. Can also be a different size to the RDCs of course Perhaps the RDC thread can be ignored as long as I can adjust height in the rack or speaker stand....
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Post by MikeMusic on Apr 2, 2019 18:21:15 GMT
Having had a look at the Clearlight Audio website, and thinking similarly, I'm not sure that using the threaded stud to adjust for height would be wise. The cones are a polymeric material and they seem to rely on the contact between the base of the cone and the bottom of the leg to provide structural integrity within the cone (and damp transmission). If you only reply on the contact between the thread of the stud and the polymeric body it could fail mechanically, although that would depend on the load they were under I suppose (it might also compromise the damping). A better way would be to work out the height differences at leach leg and then use packing pieces the same diameter as the base of the cones to take up the gap. They are fairly cheap though so might order some and have a play for use under the record deck rack - the frame looks to be too narrow to accommodate them on the new rack. I'm pretty sure the threads on the 3-leg rack are M6, but I have a spare layer at work so I can check fairly easily. Good point Pete. One of the threaded RDCs on my Technics has to be adjusted up so no contact ! Packing *under* is probably the way to go
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Post by ChrisB on Apr 2, 2019 18:28:35 GMT
Those brands will all be M8 or M6 Mike. I still have some small top plate spikes with M6 threads from Linn Sara stands that I bought to screw into some stainless steel footers I made for an AR turntable that I modified. Sound Org stuff was all M6 or M8 depending on age and Mana is M8, I think you will find.
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Post by MikeMusic on Apr 2, 2019 19:57:06 GMT
Thanks Chris Good news
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Post by The Brookmeister on Apr 2, 2019 19:58:53 GMT
Derrick after I asked him now makes a black ravioli big pad to accept spikes.
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Post by petea on Apr 2, 2019 20:08:59 GMT
What weight can they take, David?
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Post by ChrisB on Apr 2, 2019 20:16:39 GMT
Other varieties of tinned luncheon meat are also available. There's even a Trump flavour.
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Post by MartinT on Apr 2, 2019 20:37:52 GMT
Somewhere years ago I documented converting my six-legged Solid Tech system rack to take big RDC1 cones. The legs have a handy tube running up the middle of each leg with metal webs to give it strength. I drilled and tapped the tubes to take (I think) M8 studs for the RDCs. As Chris says, you can use large penny washers to set the height and give the base of the cone the support it needs.
My rack has the 32kg P10 regenerator and other equipment making up, at a guess, about 80kg of kit. It has no trouble supporting this on 6 cones pointing down on the stone tiles. I remember everything sounding a lot tighter with the change, so it's an exercise well worth doing.
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Post by MikeMusic on Apr 2, 2019 20:45:19 GMT
Thanks Martin
I'm after a quick, cheap fix using RDC cones, not new and expensive, Black Ravioli for a £100-200 system.
May have an answer to try tomorrow. Use existing spikes raised up or even upside down and into the RDCs.
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