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Post by julesd68 on Sept 1, 2021 14:13:40 GMT
They have a habit of making these kind of fugly boxes.  |
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Post by MartinT on Sept 1, 2021 14:47:31 GMT
They're down with the kids, man!
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New DACs
Sept 1, 2021 14:56:01 GMT
via mobile
Post by John on Sept 1, 2021 14:56:01 GMT
SMSL M400 v Loxjie D50 Two DAC's which look nearly identical, made in the same factory but with different branding. You might think they are just clones but in fact use different circuitry. The Loxjie D50 looks a bargain Holding itself against the M400 is pretty impressive as the M400 is a superb DAC |
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New DACs
Sept 1, 2021 15:20:29 GMT
via mobile
Post by julesd68 on Sept 1, 2021 15:20:29 GMT
There's roughly £150 difference between them so worth considering.
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alp
Rank: Trio
Posts: 167
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Post by alp on Sept 2, 2021 17:52:57 GMT
I have had the Gustard x26 Pro for a month or so now. Very good, big step-up from my Topping D90 - mainly in bass, imaging and vocals areas, even though still burning in. Chucks out a lot of heat. Will be interested in Martin's review.
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Post by julesd68 on Sept 2, 2021 20:14:25 GMT
Surprises me that the D90 was a bit disappointing! Would have been a natural 'upgrade' for me from the D70 but there are plenty of good options now ...
The ESS based D90SE has become the 'DAC du jour' though ...
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alp
Rank: Trio
Posts: 167
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Post by alp on Sept 2, 2021 20:46:33 GMT
I have read the D90SE is better than the D90, which is still very good, but the x26 Pro is better still (but also much more expensive).
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Post by julesd68 on Sept 10, 2021 13:22:57 GMT
The Schiiiiit Yggdrasil is now available in three flavours - Less is More More is Less Yggdrasil OG If you want to know what that actually means - www.schiit.com/products/yggdrasil |
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Post by julesd68 on Sept 11, 2021 12:38:40 GMT
It seems the Audio Science Review website has become rather influential with DAC manufacturers!
For those who don't know, their raison d'etre appears to be strict objectivism whereby reviews of DACs (and other gear) are dominated by measurements, the aim being to find state of the art performance as measured in various parameters.
As a result of this I can see representatives of Topping, SMSL, Gustard, Soncoz and Schiiiit active on the forum - I'm sure there are others ... It goes to show that these guys realise that they have more chance of shifting units if they can produce great measuring and sounding gear that appeals to objectivists and subjectivists alike.
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Post by MartinT on Sept 11, 2021 13:00:19 GMT
It's a great shame. Their measurements bear very little relationship to sound quality, and they almost pour scorn on sound quality comments.
They seem to, on the one hand, imply that all well measuring DACs sound great while on the other hand rank DACs by their measurements. They really can't have it both ways.
I'm afraid to say that their lack of subjective listening comments consigns them to a curiosity. I also own a component that contributes a great deal to my system's sound quality yet they say 'does nothing'. Guess what I have more respect for: my ears or ASR?
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Post by MikeMusic on Sept 11, 2021 15:32:38 GMT
All these measurements say rubbish, but it sounds good
Does not compute
Fairly obvious what's going on.
If it sounds better but the measurements say it is rubbish
They are measuring the wrong things
One day they will find out what they should be measuring
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Post by user211 on Sept 11, 2021 15:39:06 GMT
My philosophy is to make sure my DAC is truly rubbish by using triodes in the output stage.
Works for me.
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New DACs
Sept 11, 2021 16:06:17 GMT
via mobile
Post by julesd68 on Sept 11, 2021 16:06:17 GMT
All these measurements say rubbish, but it sounds good Does not compute Fairly obvious what's going on. If it sounds better but the measurements say it is rubbish They are measuring the wrong things One day they will find out what they should be measuring Which DACs are you referring to Mike? Actually there aren't so many DACs that measure poorly these days in terms of the mid to upper price brackets. They all appear to be trying to out do each other in this regard. R2R like Musician even measure well nowadays. If they are always measuring the wrong things then why would the manufacturers take any notice? There's a fairly standard list of measurements to be taken. If someone likes a DAC that measures poorly then yes one can consider why that might be but then of course not all measurements fall within an audible spectrum. My original point was not an objectivist v subjectivist one, merely the fact that like it or not, measurements appear to be much more influential than they used to be, hence manufacturer involvement I referred to. |
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New DACs
Sept 11, 2021 16:37:36 GMT
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Post by John on Sept 11, 2021 16:37:36 GMT
I guess it easier to shift a DAC based on measurements rather than a person 7 experience which is personal to them. A manufacturer is likely to prefer the certainty of data
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Post by wannarock2 on Sept 11, 2021 17:04:26 GMT
Yeah, there is no place to hide on the internet. Folks like Wolf, GoldenOne, Amir, hardisj and Stereophile Mag. that have the desire/ability and ‘scratch’ to afford the electrical analyzers have put the manufacturers ‘on-notice’ that they cannot just screw together their products and assume the components do what the components are designed to do. The ESS ‘hump’ is an example of something that will effect hi-end sound that flies under the wire unless flagged. Hell, Wolf even loaned Lao Huang, the designer of the x26p, his APx555 analyzer to tighten up the boxes performance. I have purchased pretty much my entire system with not only reading the reviews, but seeing the measurements as well. I have not been disappointed.
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Post by MartinT on Sept 11, 2021 17:08:41 GMT
It's not so much the manufacturers but ill informed buyers who want good measurements before they buy product. It's all over Facebook, for instance.
I'm not saying measurements are useless, I'm just warning that they don't tell the whole story.
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New DACs
Sept 11, 2021 17:56:24 GMT
via mobile
Post by julesd68 on Sept 11, 2021 17:56:24 GMT
I'm not saying measurements are useless, I'm just warning that they don't tell the whole story. I think we can all agree on that. |
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Post by julesd68 on Sept 11, 2021 19:42:51 GMT
This is interesting. Here is Schiit getting stuck into ASR over the measurement obsession during a live stream. But what’s intriguing is that there is now a not so subtle choice when buying a new Yggdrasil that caters squarely to the measurement crowd, so looks like they have decided that they cannot afford to ignore objectivists in the market in spite of what is said above. www.schiit.com/products/yggdrasilYggdrasil 'Less is More'. Even better performance for lower cost. The most affordable Yggdrasil uses four TI DAC8812 16-bit D/A converters. Many think this is the best sounding flavor, hence less bits, more better…less is more. Yggdrasil 'More is Less'. The best-measuring integrated multibit DAC, ever. This Yggy uses four TI DAC11001 20-bit D/A converters. If you’re one who thinks multibit DACs can’t measure well, this one’s for you—approaching -120dB THD+N. Yggdrasil OG. The Yggdrasil you’ve loved for years, same as it ever was. The original Yggdrasil with four AD5791 20-bit D/A converters remains in the line, because it provides an exceptionally engaging performance. |
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Post by MikeMusic on Sept 11, 2021 19:59:35 GMT
All these measurements say rubbish, but it sounds good Does not compute Fairly obvious what's going on. If it sounds better but the measurements say it is rubbish They are measuring the wrong things One day they will find out what they should be measuring Which DACs are you referring to Mike? Actually there aren't so many DACs that measure poorly these days in terms of the mid to upper price brackets. They all appear to be trying to out do each other in this regard. R2R like Musician even measure well nowadays. If they are always measuring the wrong things then why would the manufacturers take any notice? There's a fairly standard list of measurements to be taken. If someone likes a DAC that measures poorly then yes one can consider why that might be but then of course not all measurements fall within an audible spectrum. My original point was not an objectivist v subjectivist one, merely the fact that like it or not, measurements appear to be much more influential than they used to be, hence manufacturer involvement I referred to. I thought it was being said, some measured less good but sounded good. |
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Post by MartinT on Sept 11, 2021 20:26:29 GMT
Interesting that valves are in short supply, too.
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📶NAS > Gustard x26p DAC > Benchmark LA4 Pre-Amp > NAD M22-V2 Amplifier > Revel F228Be Speakers